Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby Vasashi17 on Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:33 pm

As of right now, I take Fish over Blake.

In the NY game, Kobe set-up Blake perfectly for a 3ball that we needed at that moment and Blake hesitated and passed up a shot for a Barnes charging violation. You know if that were Fish, that ball is going up and it doesn't matter if he went 0-7 prior to that.

At 37, Fish definitely is too proud to admit that he needs to call it a career, but I can only hope I can be that physically capable at 37. I have an appreciation for Fish and what he has done along with Kobe and the Lakers in bringing us titles to LA, so I'm obviously biased, but still, I'm much lower on Blake, at the moment, than Fisher.

Don't forget that it was both Fish and Blake primarily guarding Lin last night. Fish is 37 coming off of a back2back. Pass? I think so.....but what qualifies Blake getting a pass for stumbLin on his defensive assignment?
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby last stand on Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:01 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:As of right now, I take Fish over Blake.

In the NY game, Kobe set-up Blake perfectly for a 3ball that we needed at that moment and Blake hesitated and passed up a shot for a Barnes charging violation. You know if that were Fish, that ball is going up and it doesn't matter if he went 0-7 prior to that.

At 37, Fish definitely is too proud to admit that he needs to call it a career, but I can only hope I can be that physically capable at 37. I have an appreciation for Fish and what he has done along with Kobe and the Lakers in bringing us titles to LA, so I'm obviously biased, but still, I'm much lower on Blake, at the moment, than Fisher.

Don't forget that it was both Fish and Blake primarily guarding Lin last night. Fish is 37 coming off of a back2back. Pass? I think so.....but what qualifies Blake getting a pass for stumbLin on his defensive assignment?


blake just came back from not playing for what a month, where he couldn't even run on a treadmill for half of the time.

so to put fisher and blake on the same scale right now isn't fair. not to mention blake severly outplayed derek in boston
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby Uncle_Meat on Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:08 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:As of right now, I take Fish over Blake.
...


It's also a very political hot potato tied directly to Kobe. You know he wants him on the court...
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby Vasashi17 on Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:11 pm

Last stand: Kobe doubled, open pass to Blake, need the 3ball, time is running out and he passes to Barnes in the paint, where NY has camped out pretty much the whole game since we can't nail an open shot on the perimeter...and of course it leads to a Barnes charging call.

As a PG you should know the time on the clock and the situation needed to get a W. A 3 gets us somewhere at that moment, a 2 does not. Soar ribs doesn't excuse such a mental block.

True, that he's coming off an injury, but playing 30 minutes a night is not too much to ask for your pseudo starting PG...and for him to marginally produce better than Fish....come'on man?
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby last stand on Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:31 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:Last stand: Kobe doubled, open pass to Blake, need the 3ball, time is running out and he passes to Barnes in the paint, where NY has camped out pretty much the whole game since we can't nail an open shot on the perimeter...and of course it leads to a Barnes charging call.

As a PG you should know the time on the clock and the situation needed to get a W. A 3 gets us somewhere at that moment, a 2 does not. Soar ribs doesn't excuse such a mental block.

True, that he's coming off an injury, but playing 30 minutes a night is not too much to ask for your pseudo starting PG...and for him to marginally produce better than Fish....come'on man?


i personally don't think either guy should be a starter. they both are flawed but blake is much closer to a true PG. if it were up to me i'd bring in 2 PGs because i personally think fisher is incapable of producing at the NBA level and blake just plays better in a small market.
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby Alleyhoops on Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:35 pm

As much as I love Fish, I have no idea what he's doing on the floor anymore. He doesn't run the offense per se, doesn't penetrate and dish, doesn't defend, can't finish in the paint and can't shoot when wide open. Nothing against Derek, he's just playing when he should be long since retired. He's been an integral member of this long run, but it's just too painful for fans and the team to have him on the floor.
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby Vasashi17 on Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:49 pm

Last stand, I won't argue with you there. Fish needs to realize this season should be his last and I'm sure he has a cozy place in the front office waiting for him, especially since he has proven he can handle that side of basketball with the labor negotiations.

I frankly never liked the Blake deal....and it was almost laughable when some pundits claimed he was starter material. He's a good option coming off the bench on a mini-MLE type deal. But with that salary and the expectations in LA, we need to find a more viable option...or dude just needs to step his game way up.
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby kray28 on Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:54 pm

Vasashi17 wrote:Last stand: Kobe doubled, open pass to Blake, need the 3ball, time is running out and he passes to Barnes in the paint, where NY has camped out pretty much the whole game since we can't nail an open shot on the perimeter...and of course it leads to a Barnes charging call.

As a PG you should know the time on the clock and the situation needed to get a W. A 3 gets us somewhere at that moment, a 2 does not. Soar ribs doesn't excuse such a mental block.

True, that he's coming off an injury, but playing 30 minutes a night is not too much to ask for your pseudo starting PG...and for him to marginally produce better than Fish....come'on man?


Blake has also won games for us with his shooting (2010 Season Opener against Houston, even Thurday night in overtime he hit a big shot for us are just a few examples). It's pretty clear that he doesn't have his legs right now and is second guessing his ability to consistently hit the deep ball.

If Fish can have the gigantic pass that he gets....then Steve Blake deserves a bit of consideration given that the guy was coming off pretty painful injury.

Compare that with pretty much all of Fish's disastrous minutes against Lin (and Fish was embarrassed in epic fashion), and choosing Fish over Blake is about as misguided as it gets.

Doesn't matter what any of us think though. Derek Fisher is in denial, and has been for close to the last 2-3 seasons. He knows he has almost indestructible job security because Kobe got his back. The result for us the fans....who love the team more than we love Derek Fisher...is trash play at the point because he cannot admit that he is completely done.
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby Vasashi17 on Sat Feb 11, 2012 7:13 pm

I can't recall many big shots coming in the playoffs from Blake, but all I need is 0.4 seconds to think how many Fish has hit for us.

But that is obviously not the tell-all measure for this comparison. You have a guy that is much younger than Fish and should be in/or around his prime. Yet his offensive numbers don't really blow you away, so at least give us something on D that makes you more than just marginally better than our senior citizen. Blake had his assignment against Lin and he didn't fair any better. No matter what we say to the media, we heard about homeboy, so being known as a good defender, Blake should've taken it as a personal challenge to stop this Linsanity and instead he lights us up for 38. Now that ish cray, ain't it, kray?

If the improvement is marginal, then I have no problem sticking with Fish at the moment...even hoping it lights a fire under his @ to give us the production we need.

But you can't deny, at best, he's a decent back-up. So we need a starting PG in the worst way and that shouldn't include 2nd tier PGs that we are hoping to convert to starting material either.
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby kray28 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:48 am

Vasashi17 wrote:I can't recall many big shots coming in the playoffs from Blake, but all I need is 0.4 seconds to think how many Fish has hit for us.


In the grand scheme, Fish's hero shots have been great, but mask a trail of ineptitude that goes back to his rookie year.

The triangle and then the brilliance of the starters hid Fisher for a long time. The triangle did not ask him to be a playmaker, or even to initiate the offense. He served merely as a perimeter spacer. His job was to nail wide open shots and draw a man away from crowding the bigs or doubling Kobe.

After 07-08 he couldn't even do that. Still he remained the starter. He's been in major decline for over three seasons now, and each season it keeps getting worse.

I remember Fish saying that he wanted to keep playing so he could see the players through the lockout as President of the Union. Now that's done, and dude is still here. If he cared about the team or even shared the loyalty that Kobe has for him, he'd step down for the good of the team and ask Brown to start Blake.

But he won't, because Fisher is selfish, in denial, and has some weird inflated notion of what his value to the team is. Outside of some rare, once in a blue moon clutch plays (very rare), all you get from him is crap. He's the worst starting point guard in the league. You don't get points, you don't get assists, you don't get defense....what do you get? Oh, you get an occasional clutch basket, some foot on the line threes, some early transition bricks, and of course, the patented Derek Fisher Missed Layup Special­™.
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby JGC on Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:35 am

^ Ok I agree with most of what you said ... but selfish? Fisher isn't selfish. He isn't the coach of this team. He's trying, he just sucks. He's the starter because Mike Brown makes him the starter. What do you expect him to do exactly, quit? (What you expect, not what you'd like, haha). He's never been a quitter... sure he's in denial, but so is Kobe. He can't carry a team like he used to be able to anymore (most probably due to not having the legs for it).

Asking him to step down is like asking Kobe to take a paycut for the good of the team. The onus is on Brown to make that change at PG, not Fisher. Fisher's job is to try his best to execute the coach's strategy which Fisher tries to do but fails miserably at.
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby earvinfr on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:00 pm

Do anybody wonders why Lin and Calderon had their best game of the season against us ?

After the last 2 games I don't understand why Lin and Calderon are not selected to the All-Star game !!
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby Balance&Options24 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:23 pm

Before he started to break down, Ewing still was a major contributor, averaging 17 points and 10 rebounds in the lockout-shortened season when the Knicks finished in eighth place and then went on their surprise run to the Finals. “I almost expect Derek to have a tough time, with all the negotiating he had to be a part of,’’ Ewing told the Daily News recently. “Too much negotiating and not enough work on the court — that’s what happened to me during the lockout. Too much talking and not enough training. I couldn’t put in my usual offseason work routine. I think that all caught up to me, with my Achilles problems.’’ New York Daily News


“I don’t think I’m physically struggling or having a difficult time playing,’’ Fisher said, when asked about his union role. “I think you see players who weren’t involved in negotiations just finding it difficult to find the same rhythm and timing and playing at the same level this season. We didn’t have a normal offseason. So it’s tougher to stay consistent in your workouts and it’s tougher to do the same things you do to prepare yourself to play.’’ New York Daily News

Just admit your run is over Fish.
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:29 pm

^^That explains Fish..... what about Whirled Peas...... He came in fat and out of shape as well.... Any trade we can make that gives us an opportunity to jettison one or both of these guys would be a godsend..... I love Fish and what he's meant to this organization but his pig-headed denial of reality is getting to the point of absurdity....
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby last stand on Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:29 pm

fisher is a man, a prideful man, a man who's confidence allowed him to drain some showstopping daggers in his day.

naturally he's gonna have a tough time admitting his skills are diminishing
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:35 pm

^^Diminishing was 2 years ago..... gone was this offseason. It's sad to see but he has to cringe when he is watching game film right now......
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby last stand on Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:42 pm

Rooscooter wrote:^^Diminishing was 2 years ago..... gone was this offseason. It's sad to see but he has to cringe when he is watching game film right now......


you'd hope so. but maybe his pride is so great that he is blaming other people in his mind, or the coach, or change in offense

the greater the pride the harder the fall. we are watching a stubborn man continue to press and push despite probably not being capable. its like watching shaq last year. i really hope we never have to see kobe like this
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby Dyeggoo on Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:19 am

Lakers are extremely loyal to Fish but is he loyal to the Lakers if he clearly sees that he's hurting the team by starting and doesn't want to step down? Don't get me wrong, he's my favourite Laker since I was a kid but right now he takes away my joy of watching Lakers...
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby kray28 on Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:41 am

Dyeggoo wrote:Lakers are extremely loyal to Fish but is he loyal to the Lakers if he clearly sees that he's hurting the team by starting and doesn't want to step down? Don't get me wrong, he's my favourite Laker since I was a kid but right now he takes away my joy of watching Lakers...


That's the question I asked in my post as well.

I called him selfish....why? Because of this Ironman/consecutive starts record. That record is a point of pride for Fish. It's only type of mark he holds in this league, and don't think his continued need to start and play isn't fueled by the motivation to keep adding to it.
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby Phil XI on Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:47 am

The issue is that the Lakers are sitting around waiting for Fisher to play well again, Blake to be starter calibre, Morris to become a somebody... and in the meantime actual nba PG talent is getting waived and picked up multiple times. Some on this board and at Rgm were saying why not give Lin a look:

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2011-12-09 Warriors Jeremy Lin waived
2011-12-11 Rockets Jeremy Lin claimed off waivers (from Warriors)
2011-12-24 Rockets Jeremy Lin waived
2011-12-27 Knicks Jeremy Lin claimed off waivers (from Rockets)
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby kray28 on Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:58 am

Teams with worse records than us have dibs on the waiver wire. We could have signed Lin if he had cleared waivers. The Knicks getting him was a reaction to them amnestying Chauncey...they needed a backup PG to take his place, and took Lin.
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby Phil XI on Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:32 am

True but I am under the impression teams usually call around before straight dumping a guy to see if they can pick up a 2nd or a guy to develop or sometimes a small TPE. Lin was obviously dropped in HOU due to them having 3 PGs on guaranteed contracts at opening day (Lowry, Flynn, Dragic). After being close on the CP3 deal with Houston you think they were at least on speaking terms.
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby borri on Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:33 am

kray28 wrote:Teams with worse records than us have dibs on the waiver wire. We could have signed Lin if he had cleared waivers. The Knicks getting him was a reaction to them amnestying Chauncey...they needed a backup PG to take his place, and took Lin.


Yah ESPN radio dude publicly apologized to LAL fans by saying we slept on Lin and should have picked him up. He clarified saying, we scouted him out of college and wanted him but GS picked him up. When GS cut him, we tried to claim him but HOU took him. When HOU cut him we tried again to claim him but NYK grabbed him.
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby Phil XI on Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:46 am

So the scouts liked him coming out of Harvard, and the Lakers needed a young PG to groom, but passed and took Caracter instead at 58. :bang:

It's Wes Matthews all over again.
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Re: Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

Postby 24fanyes on Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:55 am

get over it.... are we really going to cry over this?

u guys act like he's the next MJ :man10:
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