Derek Fisher is NOT a PG.

last stand wrote:fisher is a man, a prideful man, a man who's confidence allowed him to drain some showstopping daggers in his day.

naturally he's gonna have a tough time admitting his skills are diminishing

hitting clutch shots in his career does not give him the right to act as if he still has it.

this isn't 2001 you idiot fish.. get rid of this trash already

he should have been gone along with our old coaching staff PERIOD

TIME wrote:Agreed, but he's not a SG either, at least on the NBA level. So where does that leave us?

I can tell you where.With all of my respect to Fish for everything he has done for this club, I would like to tell him this:
FISH. IT IS TIME FOR YOU TO RETIRE,BUDDY.DO NOT END YOUR GREAT CARIERE WITH LAKERS FANS BOOING AFTER YOU. YOU HAVE GOT 5 RINGS. WHAT ELSE DO YOU NEED? CALL IT END AND GET A FRONT OFFICE JOB.THERE WILL BE CHANGES IN THE UPPER LEVEL, SO BE PREPAIRED TO STEP IN, WHEN THE TIME COMES.I HATE TO WRITE ALL OF THIS, BUT IT IS REALLY TIME FOR YOU TO END IT.

And as of Blake and Morris, none of them is good enough for starter.The Lakers need to trade for Deron Williams ASAP and waive Luke Walton off the roster to make a room to sign Wilson Chandler and/or J.R.Smith. Then, we can talk about our chances to win it all.Not now.

^ I was thinking we should just boo fish... i am serious

borri wrote:

kray28 wrote:Teams with worse records than us have dibs on the waiver wire. We could have signed Lin if he had cleared waivers. The Knicks getting him was a reaction to them amnestying Chauncey...they needed a backup PG to take his place, and took Lin.

Yah ESPN radio dude publicly apologized to LAL fans by saying we slept on Lin and should have picked him up. He clarified saying, we scouted him out of college and wanted him but GS picked him up. When GS cut him, we tried to claim him but HOU took him. When HOU cut him we tried again to claim him but NYK grabbed him.

"borri",
I would like your post to be readed several times from all of our fans, who still think, that Mitch Kupchak is a great GM. We have had three chances of signing Jeremy Lin, but...never did it.It shows a luck of scouting and luck of smart management.And this is not the only mistake Mitch did in the last decade. He is ruining this organization day after day.

waltonout wrote:"borri",
I would like your post to be readed several times from all of our fans, who still think, that Mitch Kupchak is a great GM. We have had three chances of signing Jeremy Lin, but...never did it.It shows a luck of scouting and luck of smart management.And this is not the only mistake Mitch did in the last decade. He is ruining this organization day after day.

umm did you understand Borri post when reading? GM TRIED but we DIDN'T have better waiver priority due to RECORD at time of claim.....teams with better higher priority get to claim players of off waivers ahead of teams with better record

waltonout wrote:

borri wrote:
Yah ESPN radio dude publicly apologized to LAL fans by saying we slept on Lin and should have picked him up. He clarified saying, we scouted him out of college and wanted him but GS picked him up. When GS cut him, we tried to claim him but HOU took him. When HOU cut him we tried again to claim him but NYK grabbed him.

"borri",
I would like your post to be readed several times from all of our fans, who still think, that Mitch Kupchak is a great GM. We have had three chances of signing Jeremy Lin, but...never did it.It shows a luck of scouting and luck of smart management.And this is not the only mistake Mitch did in the last decade. He is ruining this organization day after day.

Your reading comprehension needs some work. He clearly said that we attempted to pick Lin up multiple times but do to the way the league has the rules set on such matters, we were unable to.

In other words it WAS NOT Mitch Kupchak's fault that we didn't get Jeremy Lin after he left GS or HOU. You can pin some of the blame on him for not drafting the guy, but who knew he would turn out like he did? To be honest we still don't know if he's a flash in the pan guy or a consistently good PG.

Phil XI wrote:So the scouts liked him coming out of Harvard, and the Lakers needed a young PG to groom, but passed and took Caracter instead at 58.

It's Wes Matthews all over again.

I'm not even sure what you're saying. Lin played in 38 games over two seasons before having a good game. He posted only decent stats in the D-League. Who on earth thought he would play well? No one.

Caracter played well as a rookie, and he would've been entrenched in the rotation had it not been for the injury in all likelihood. Caracter was a great pick at that position. And Lin was not drafted, so the Lakers could've reached out to him immediately if they'd wanted to.

trodgers wrote:

Phil XI wrote:So the scouts liked him coming out of Harvard, and the Lakers needed a young PG to groom, but passed and took Caracter instead at 58.

It's Wes Matthews all over again.

I'm not even sure what you're saying. Lin played in 38 games over two seasons before having a good game. He posted only decent stats in the D-League. Who on earth thought he would play well? No one.

Caracter played well as a rookie, and he would've been entrenched in the rotation had it not been for the injury in all likelihood. Caracter was a great pick at that position. And Lin was not drafted, so the Lakers could've reached out to him immediately if they'd wanted to.

I've heard (probably on this forum) that the Lakers did exactly that but he chose to sign for GS because it was his hometown team.

We need to find a way to fix this...

And while the coaches are trying to address any one issue to the point that you hope it’s solved, another issue just seems to pop up. The return of Steve Blake is a perfect example. When Blake came back, the Lakers got another solid, ball handling guard to soak up minutes and help steady this team. Against Boston he played crunch time minutes in the 4th quarter and overtime and helped organize the Lakers offense while playing solid defense. By no means did Blake’s presence mean the Lakers PG issues were solved but he was part of the solution.

But, when Blake came back it meant that Andrew Goudelock moved back to shooting guard rather than getting his minutes at back up point guard. You see, while Blake was out, Goudelock thrived as a ball handling guard that could attack at any given moment because he had the ball in his hands at the beginning of every possession. His scoring provided needed bench production and his ability to create off the dribble in the P&R compromised the opposing defense and helped create open shots and offensive rebounding chances for his teammates. But now that Blake is back, Goudelock’s production has once again dipped and more resembles what he was giving the Lakers early in the year; production that found him on the bench and out of the rotation before Blake got hurt. And now that Goudelock’s play has suffered, the Lakers’ bench production has suffered too.

Glock needs to learn how to play off the ball...can't expect the whole team to change their gameplan to suit his need to dominate the ball.

Regardless, he should be getting more minutes with the minutes coming out of Fisher's total rather than Blake's.

The Rock wrote:We need to find a way to fix this...

And while the coaches are trying to address any one issue to the point that you hope it’s solved, another issue just seems to pop up. The return of Steve Blake is a perfect example. When Blake came back, the Lakers got another solid, ball handling guard to soak up minutes and help steady this team. Against Boston he played crunch time minutes in the 4th quarter and overtime and helped organize the Lakers offense while playing solid defense. By no means did Blake’s presence mean the Lakers PG issues were solved but he was part of the solution.

But, when Blake came back it meant that Andrew Goudelock moved back to shooting guard rather than getting his minutes at back up point guard. You see, while Blake was out, Goudelock thrived as a ball handling guard that could attack at any given moment because he had the ball in his hands at the beginning of every possession. His scoring provided needed bench production and his ability to create off the dribble in the P&R compromised the opposing defense and helped create open shots and offensive rebounding chances for his teammates. But now that Blake is back, Goudelock’s production has once again dipped and more resembles what he was giving the Lakers early in the year; production that found him on the bench and out of the rotation before Blake got hurt. And now that Goudelock’s play has suffered, the Lakers’ bench production has suffered too.

His production is suffering as a result of minutes. Not position.

When he was playing 20 minutes per game with Blake out, he was averaging 10ppg. 2:1 minutes/points ratio.

He got 16 minutes in the Raptor game and had 7 points. 2.2:1 minutes/points ratio.

When he got 8 minutes in the NY game and scored 3 points. 2.6:1 minutes/points ratio.

I don't think it matters whether he plays SG or PG. He needs the minutes.

^ That. It's not about position on the floor. It's not like him being the backup PG made any difference at all. When he's in the game with Blake he can get almost as many shots up and make many of the same moves and decisions he was making as backup PG. In fact, it should make him easier since Blake is a better passer and able to set him up better than if he were handling the ball himself.

24fanyes wrote:

last stand wrote:fisher is a man, a prideful man, a man who's confidence allowed him to drain some showstopping daggers in his day.

naturally he's gonna have a tough time admitting his skills are diminishing

hitting clutch shots in his career does not give him the right to act as if he still has it.

this isn't 2001 you idiot fish.. get rid of this trash already

Well, don't say that. You could easily be talking about #24 there by saying hitting clutch shots in his career does not give him the right to act as if he still has it.

JGC wrote:

24fanyes wrote:
hitting clutch shots in his career does not give him the right to act as if he still has it.

this isn't 2001 you idiot fish.. get rid of this trash already

Well, don't say that. You could easily be talking about #24 there by saying hitting clutch shots in his career does not give him the right to act as if he still has it.

I wonder how you do it, I really do...

You somehow manage to bring Kobe into discussions that have nothing to do with him, while trying to discredit him at any given opportunity.

From "Lakers trading for a PG likely"

Ok but here's the deal. If we sign Arenas, and he sucks, and then another viable PG option is picked up or traded away for cents on the dollar and we miss out....

Then this board will complain about how Mitch or Jim or anyone not named Kobe is to blame for getting that guy.

People really need to stop with the "he's better than Fisher so what is there to lose" fantasy basketball mindset. Think of it, whether you like it or not, in terms of whoever you get will be yours for the rest of this season and possibly next season too at minimum.

From "Kobe's Thoughts Re Jeremy Lin"

Good to hear that from Melo. If we get any semblance of a reasonable true playmaking point guard, I hope Kobe says something similar.

It's only good for New York if Melo practices what he preaches.

No, it doesn't bother me or annoy me (yet) because it was true. He did scorch Kobe. And not just on one play, the entire game. It would bother me if Lin scored 8 pts, Kobe scored 30, but Lin hit like the game winner and beat the Lakers and then you saw "Lin scorches Kobe".

From "Lakers are after Ramon Sessions"

In a triangle offense, I'd totally agree with you. In a traditional offense, completely disagree. Your primary playmaker is rarely ever a power forward and Kobe doesn't make plays for others. He makes plays for himself, and then if that option isn't there for him, he looks for a teammate. That isn't being a playmaker.

WMC thread...

Aren't you going to blame Mitch for signing Kobe to an extension worth $30M per year almost (and $32 million next year)? We've been bad ever since that extension kicked in and that extension makes it impossible to sign quality role players. Why would you credit Mitch for that extension, if we've been bad ever since it has kicked in?

"Derek Fisher is NOT a PG" thread...

Blake with Goudelock off the bench. Fisher in for a few mins here and there. If BlaGou isn't getting it done, Fisher can get the OK to play in the closing minutes. He's been more clutch down the stretch than Kobe the past two seasons!

etc...

You make it too easy...



revgen stated it the best:

You keep making claims yet you don't provide any substance to your claims.

Dude's agenda is so obvious^

Shhh... he doesn't know it

Blake: 29 min, +10 (team best)
Fish: 19 min, -2 (team worst)

What Fish can do that Goudelock can't do ? nothing
What Goudelock can do that Fish can't do ? at least he can penetrate and score with his floater !!

its very sad that we still have Fisher. why can't we get a good point guard?? when?? it seems like forever. Look at Lin. He can do many different things that Fisher can't do. *** ship his [Swearing is not permitted at Clublakers. You must edit this post prior to submitting.] out!

assassin08 wrote:

JGC wrote:

24fanyes wrote:
hitting clutch shots in his career does not give him the right to act as if he still has it.

this isn't 2001 you idiot fish.. get rid of this trash already

Well, don't say that. You could easily be talking about #24 there by saying hitting clutch shots in his career does not give him the right to act as if he still has it.

I wonder how you do it, I really do...

You somehow manage to bring Kobe into discussions that have nothing to do with him, while trying to discredit him at any given opportunity.

I wasn't about to quote all of that research you spent all of that time making simply because it was too long. How is Kobe irrelevant in ANY Lakers discussion? LOL. He is the FACE of this franchise! The only reason it is so irritating that we don't have a proper point guard, is because we all want Kobe to win as many as he can in the few years he has left right? And we want him to get some help right?

I don't discredit Kobe, I criticize Kobe and if you hold him to the highest possible standard, higher than any other player in this league, then there is room for criticism there.

Are you really upset about discrediting someone in a thread that is 18 pages long titled "Derek Fisher is NOT a PG"? LOL. I guess it is ok in here to "discredit" anyone other than Kobe should be immune?

Derek tries man. He gets to start because the coach starts him. It's not Derek's choice. He's not getting it done, not even close and so he should be a fair target for criticism but he's not the only one not getting it done either.

JGC:

The reason you didn't include my examples of your own posts is because you are deflecting here, since if you did, the rest of your post becomes invalid. Since you didn't, I will quote them for you and write out the reasons, since you want to be really clever about it...

Ok but here's the deal. If we sign Arenas, and he sucks, and then another viable PG option is picked up or traded away for cents on the dollar and we miss out....

Then this board will complain about how Mitch or Jim or anyone not named Kobe is to blame for getting that guy.

People really need to stop with the "he's better than Fisher so what is there to lose" fantasy basketball mindset. Think of it, whether you like it or not, in terms of whoever you get will be yours for the rest of this season and possibly next season too at minimum.

Was there a reason to bring Kobe into that conversation? In reality, no, because you can't speak for the whole forum and arrive at the conclusion that you did. How is Kobe relevant in the actual decision of the Lakers' management to bring in Arenas? He isn't, but you couldn't resist to take a snipe there.

Good to hear that from Melo. If we get any semblance of a reasonable true playmaking point guard, I hope Kobe says something similar.

It's only good for New York if Melo practices what he preaches.

How do you know Kobe won't be saying similar things? Oh, right, because you think he won't, because of the following...

No, it doesn't bother me or annoy me (yet) because it was true. He did scorch Kobe. And not just on one play, the entire game. It would bother me if Lin scored 8 pts, Kobe scored 30, but Lin hit like the game winner and beat the Lakers and then you saw "Lin scorches Kobe".

Wait, what? Jeremy Lin scorched Kobe the entire game? Were Blake, Fisher not responsible for guarding Jeremy Lin? You know... given how all three of them play the PG position, whereas Kobe is the SG?

Kobe doesn't make plays for others. He makes plays for himself, and then if that option isn't there for him, he looks for a teammate. That isn't being a playmaker.

Now you are just being intellectually dishonest.

But that's your forte.

Aren't you going to blame Mitch for signing Kobe to an extension worth $30M per year almost (and $32 million next year)? We've been bad ever since that extension kicked in and that extension makes it impossible to sign quality role players. Why would you credit Mitch for that extension, if we've been bad ever since it has kicked in?

So... the cause of the Lakers' less-than-stellar play is not because of some players' lack of skills and other players aging, but because of Kobe's contract? That is rich, JGC, very rich.

Blake with Goudelock off the bench. Fisher in for a few mins here and there. If BlaGou isn't getting it done, Fisher can get the OK to play in the closing minutes. He's been more clutch down the stretch than Kobe the past two seasons!

Did you just pull that statement out of your anus? Please, provide some evidence to back it up.

Finally...

I don't discredit Kobe, I criticize Kobe and if you hold him to the highest possible standard, higher than any other player in this league, then there is room for criticism there.

There is a difference between holding any player to the highest possible standard vs. having a standard based on arbitrary, irrational, or outright false criteria backed by highly subjective "reasons", if any at all.

Oh, and, please explain how Kobe doesn't make plays for others?

Your whole schtick is so transparent that it would have been funnier if it wasn't for how pathetic it is.

^ Dude, you're taking it very personally and way off topic. I'll respond via PM. I just didn't think it was appropriate to respond to your attack about by Kobe "schtick" in a thread about Derek Fisher. I thought we weren't supposed to derail or take things to personally in the public threads, no?

If you think what is being said is so ridiculous or outrageous then why dignify it with a response? It'll take me a while, but I'll get there via PM, but not here unless you think it is appropriate for us to have this discussion here.

Go ahead, have it here, and I didn't take anything personally. I didn't attack you the person, I attacked the merits of your posts, or lack of. Attack my posts if you have the facts and logic to back them up, no need for PM since I wouldn't take those responses personally.

Discuss it here, I'm all for it, I'm not the only poster to have noticed your schtick and agenda. I give credit to the mods, just because not too many of them have warned you, even though several of them (therealdeal, TIME, just off the top of my head) have already given you hints, does not mean nobody is aware of your schtick and agenda.