Deron Williams Trade Discussion (Resigning w/Brooklyn)

JUST-MING wrote:Deron can play/defend both point or shooting guard. He played next to Rose, Wade and James (each ball-dominant) during the All-Star game and was spectacular. That’s part of what makes him better than Paul. Paul can’t play off the ball. Deron can play off the ball, and has a impact (as a lethal 3-point threat).

This.

Make it happen, Mitch!

Someone in this thread is trying to convince himself that Josh Smith is a superstar.

bruddahmanmatt wrote:Someone in this thread is trying to convince himself that Josh Smith is a superstar.

Theres only a half a dozen legit superstars in the league. Smith clearly isn't. He is however a great complimentary player.

The Rock wrote:

bruddahmanmatt wrote:Someone in this thread is trying to convince himself that Josh Smith is a superstar.

Theres only a half a dozen legit superstars in the league. Smith clearly isn't. He is however a great complimentary player.

I hear he's a nice guy.

Top 15 though? Come on now.

bruddahmanmatt wrote:

The Rock wrote:

bruddahmanmatt wrote:Someone in this thread is trying to convince himself that Josh Smith is a superstar.

Theres only a half a dozen legit superstars in the league. Smith clearly isn't. He is however a great complimentary player.

I hear he's a nice guy.

Top 15 though? Come on now.

In no order

Kobe, Bynum, Wade, Lebron, Durant, Westbrook, CP3, Deron, Rondo, Love, Howard, Aldridge, Melo, Dirk

those are the 14 players I think that are better than Smith right now. I would put Rose in there but he's hurt and wont return till next Jan I believe, so Smith is in the top 15. I think Dirk is declining so Smith may move up a spot next year and keep moving up. I dont see him becoming a superstar but he'll be hanging around the 10-15 range

The Rock wrote:

bruddahmanmatt wrote:

The Rock wrote:Theres only a half a dozen legit superstars in the league. Smith clearly isn't. He is however a great complimentary player.

I hear he's a nice guy.

Top 15 though? Come on now.

In no order

Kobe, Bynum, Wade, Lebron, Durant, Westbrook, CP3, Deron, Rondo, Love, Howard, Aldridge, Melo, Dirk

those are the 14 players I think that are better than Smith right now. I would put Rose in there but he's hurt and wont return till next Jan I believe, so Smith is in the top 15. I think Dirk is declining so Smith may move up a spot next year and keep moving up. I dont see him becoming a superstar but he'll be hanging around the 10-15 range

So aside from the fact that you think Smith is better than his own teammate Al Horford, you also think he's better than (in no particular order) Bosh, M. Gasol, Hibbert, Parker, Duncan, Ginobili, Harden, Garnett, Pierce, Iguodala, Deng and Kyrie?

bruddahmanmatt wrote:So aside from the fact that you think Smith is better than his own teammate Al Horford, you also think he's better than (in no particular order) Bosh, M. Gasol, Hibbert, Parker, Duncan, Ginobili, Harden, Garnett, Pierce, Iguodala, Deng and Kyrie?

I think he had a better season in 2011/2012 than most of those guys you mentioned (Jefferson and Parker one could make a case) and i think I'll take him over all the guys you mentioned for next year.

Kyrie has superstar potential but he's 2-3 years away from being that.

The Rock wrote:

bruddahmanmatt wrote:So aside from the fact that you think Smith is better than his own teammate Al Horford, you also think he's better than (in no particular order) Bosh, M. Gasol, Hibbert, Parker, Duncan, Ginobili, Harden, Garnett, Pierce, Iguodala, Deng and Kyrie?

I think he had a better season in 2011/2012 than most of those guys you mentioned (Jefferson and Parker one could make a case) and i think I'll take him over all the guys you mentioned for next year.

Kyrie has superstar potential but he's 2-3 years away from being that.

Which ones? Are you telling me that if we could have had any one of those names this season you'd have taken Smith over all of them? I sincerely doubt that.

BTW I never mentioned either of the Jefferson boys (Al or Richard) , because IMO Smith is better than bofe of um.

As for Kyrie, you say he's 2-3 years away but if he were on the same contract as Smith and both were offered to us for Gasol, would you really take Smoove over Irving?

The Rock wrote:

JGC wrote:

The Rock wrote:Brooklyn is moving to a new city and a new arena. Would they rather have

1) No Deron Williams and all cap space
2) Josh Smith

Im pretty sure they're willing to trade Deron and get some value out of it. When you build a new arena you need butts in seats, having capspace wont put butts in seats. Josh Smith is one of the most exciting players in the league and has been a borderline All star each of the last 3 years. HEs worth the $13 mil.

I didn't say those are the only pieces to the trade but that would be the core of the deal

Ok, I see you're trying to sell folks on why NJ would want Smith by overstating his value to a franchise. The reality is, he doesn't ACTUALLY put butts in seats. No one buys his jersey. Hawks are among the league's worst in attendance (23 out of 30). If you factor in wins (since a winning team should attract more fans), the Hawks are behind only the Pacers in worst average attendance per game won. I've never seen a Josh Smith commercial, and he can't even get people to come watch him despite the fact they had a good season (40 wins = 50 wins in an 82 game season). He has almost ZERO appeal outside of Atlanta marketability wise and even within Atlanta itself it's limited.

You can't just say a guy puts butts in seats just because you want your mega 3-way deal to work cmon! haha.

Chris Paul says hi. Great player, MVP type player and one of the exciting players in the league and yet Hornets were always in the bottom of the league in attendance. How do you explain their attendance problems? NOLA is a football town just like Atlanta. Some cities are just unfit to draw NBA crowds

Smith can jumpstart the Nets franchise in Brooklyn, they havent made the playoffs since the 2007 season. After Al Horford was out most of the year, he and Joe johnson were the top two guys to help ATL get a top 4 record in the East with Jeff Teague and a bunch a scrubs around them.

Ok, with your logic I could pick ANY player argue he can put butts in seats because even CP3 couldn't in New Orleans? Hahahaha.

Ok listen I am going to throw you a bone on this one. One of the best measures is to look at is ROAD attendance ranks. That eliminates the 'city' issue you brought up.

Hornets ROAD attendance PCT:
2012: 23rd (Year CP3 leaves)
2011: 15th
2010: 13th
2009: 9th
2008: 14th
2007: 14th
2006: 30th (CP3's rookie year)

Hawks ROAD attendance PCT:
2012: 20th (Year he and Joe johnson were the top two guys to help ATL get a top 4 record in the East with Jeff Teague and a bunch a scrubs around them.)
2011: 22nd
2010: 16th
2009: 18th
2008: 29th
2007: 30th
2006: 29th
2005: 30th (Smith's rookie year and year he won the slam dunk contest)

The only way you'll convince anybody that Josh Smith can put butts in seats is if you want to try to argue that he has mass appeal in the city of Brooklyn and the city of Brooklyn ONLY. Because apparently, he doesn't have any appeal whatsoever in any NBA city including Atlanta which is the one he's played in his entire 8 year career.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/J8cHg2SiU5w[/youtube]

Smith might not even be a top 30 guy, let alone top 15!

The Rock wrote:

Rooscooter wrote:I think Smith is a classic "athlete" that can play Basketball guy.... he's capable of the occasional WOW plays yet most of the time you get the WTF plays or just no play at all from him..... So far he's a wasted talent IMO...

If Pau's going out we need volume not another 3rd banana that's high paid and prevents us from getting any other help. Our top 3 players were not the problem this year..... interchanging they with other nearly equal parts isn't going to help us get back to the top.... we need a couple players that can contribute in areas we are weak in at the very least for Pau....

Right Josh Smith's 19/10, 70 blocks, 70 steals /70 blocks(which only 1 other guy in the league has) is a waste of talent and Chris Paul is not a great player

What?... not going to call me an idiot today.......

Never said Paul wasn't a "great player"...... said he wasn't the top PG IMO..... different things. I'd take Parker over him along with Rose and D-Will and maybe even Rondo for OUR team.

Smith is a player that doesn't make us any better IMO... we don't push the ball (where he gets most of his points) and we run isolation and post offense most of the time.... he doesn't do well in either.

Neither has led their teams anywhere in the post season either.

Stats don't mean anything if they don't result in success.... He's a great fantasy player...... so what?

What we need is to get better at more than one position... If Pau is traded we don't need a "swap" of underachieving players..... Pau wasn't the reason we lost.... our supporting cast, on most other top teams, wouldn't see the floor on most nights....

wcsoldier81 wrote:Deron creating an open look for Kobe

Kobe with the shot fake and jabsteps , waiting for his defender to recover and then take a tough fadeaway

Deron : "Wtf"

that's the problem we will have with any true PG ... But we need him badly

Hypothetically speaking if we had DWill, what would be a better piece to pair him with Iggy or Beasley?

LakeShow85 wrote:Hypothetically speaking if we had DWill, what would be a better piece to pair him with Iggy or Beasley?

Iggy... There is almost nothing Beasley can do better than Iggy. You would only choose Beasley if you want a young player because you're rebuilding and banking on potential.

thkthebest wrote:

LakeShow85 wrote:Hypothetically speaking if we had DWill, what would be a better piece to pair him with Iggy or Beasley?

Iggy... There is almost nothing Beasley can do better than Iggy. You would only choose Beasley if you want a young player because you're rebuilding and banking on potential.

Beasley is a much better scorer than Iggy.

thkthebest wrote:

LakeShow85 wrote:Hypothetically speaking if we had DWill, what would be a better piece to pair him with Iggy or Beasley?

Iggy... There is almost nothing Beasley can do better than Iggy. You would only choose Beasley if you want a young player because you're rebuilding and banking on potential.

I mostly agree.... The difference I see is that Iggy is a SG/SF.... where Beasley is more of a SF/PF... Beasley is 6'-10". Beasley may be a bit better without the ball where Iggy is pretty much at his best when he has the ball.... paring that with a ball dominant guard might limit some of his game.....

It would depend on which position we were weakest at for me..... If MWP is gone then Iggy would be the best fit... If he were still here and Pau gone then Beasley might fit better.

Like you said, I think it depends on what we were weakest at, personally I'd take Iggy over beasley for his overall game, he can defend, pass and rebound better.

Rooscooter wrote:Never said Paul wasn’t a “great player”, but Paul wasn't the top PG; different things. I’d take Tony Parker over Chris Paul, Derrick Rose, Deron Williams, and maybe even Rajon Rondo for our team.

Rajon Rondo carried the Celtics down the stretch versus Philadelphia in game seven, had with 18 points, 10 assists, 10 rebounds and three steals--just the second game seven triple double in the storied history of the Celtics franchise (Larry Bird had 39 points, 12 rebounds and 10 assists versus New York in 1984). Rondo now has nine career playoff triple doubles, tying him with Wilt Chamberlain for fourth on the NBA’s all-time list (Magic Johnson leads the way with 30, followed by Jason Kidd’s 11 and Bird’s 10).

^^Rondo always seems to elevate his game in the playoffs... fairly rare these days....

Ideally, I would like both Beasley and Iggy. Unfortunately, we probably only get one. With that said, Beasley can start and has in the past and done pretty well scoring the ball. The problem in lies would he be able to play good defense against Kevin Durant. We all know Iggy can play defense.

We need to upgrade that small forward position drastically. That should be a main piece we fill in the offseason. Even if we got a PF that can score, rebound, play defense, and was limited offensively, I would take it as long as we got a good SF. We need depth badly, though. Our bench is anemic.

Anyone hear about this rumor. Heard it from a coworker.

Supposedly, if the nets dont get a top 3 pick, they might make this trade...

Nets Out
Derron Williams, Brooks, 1st round pick (If its not a top 3 pick)
Nets In
Tyreke Evans, Andrew Bynum, MWP, Francisco Garcia

Kings Out
Tyreke Evans, Demarcus Cousins
Kings In
Brook Lopez and Nets 1st round pick

Lakers Out
Bynum, MWP
Lakers In
Deron Williams, Demarcus Cousins

jjin28 wrote:Anyone hear about this rumor. Heard it from a coworker.

Supposedly, if the nets dont get a top 3 pick, they might make this trade...

Nets Out
Derron Williams, Brooks, 1st round pick (If its not a top 3 pick)
Nets In
Tyreke Evans, Andrew Bynum, MWP, Francisco Garcia

Kings Out
Tyreke Evans, Demarcus Cousins
Kings In
Brook Lopez and Nets 1st round pick

Lakers Out
Bynum, MWP
Lakers In
Deron Williams, Demarcus Cousins

DAM, does Mitch have dirty pictures of Maloof and Proky?

Kings get the very, very short end of the stick there don't they?

demarcus cousins? do not want.