Kobe the Closer

TIME wrote:

ForpLAL wrote:Many people said he was done. He is still a dominant player.


Greetings from Argentina, I'm a Lakers fan despite the distance.

Welcome to the site Argentina!

Thanks a lot, a week ago I startd reading the forum to update myself and decided to register today.

I'll try to have fun and discuss with u guys.

pjdiddy...

don't you see though why some of us who are still huge fans of his get so, so frustrated with him? he has never had two months of 40% shooting in a row. it led some us to think that maybe his body just wasn't right... maybe he lost just that little bit of lift necessary. but then he has three games like this past week.

it PROVES that he doesn't have to shoot that bad. it is only out of sheer stubborness that he takes bad shots, that he forces things, or just takes shots that aren't necessarily bad but at aren't as good as the open jumper he had a second before.

that is why we get frustrated... it is his own doing. i personally think he is more skilled than jordan (and significanlty so). but skill don't make you the better player. it is skills plus action. jordan made it a goal to play efficiently. kobe makes it a goal to wow people with his brilliance, even if that means taking a bad shot.

now, i don't think kobe needs to shoot 50%... with zones, box and ones, etc. that would be very difficult (especially with big guys clogging the lane and not so great 3pt shooters who fail to spread the floor). but is 47% or 48% so much to ask for?

believe me.. if he shot 47% or 48% the comparisons to jordan would be taken much more seriously by a lot of people. in his race to be considered the greatest player of all time, kobe can be his own worst enemy.

Kobe's efficiency has never been an issue until this season. Yeah it took a decent hit from 09-11 but that was mostly due to injury. Now he's relatively healthy and can't seem to play well which is what concerns a lot of people. But these last few games have shown he's still capable of playing well so long as he doesn't try to do everything himself.

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:Kobe's efficiency has never been an issue until this season. Yeah it took a decent hit from 09-11 but that was mostly due to injury. Now he's relatively healthy and can't seem to play well which is what concerns a lot of people. But these last few games have shown he's still capable of playing well so long as he doesn't try to do everything himself.

He's still dealing with that wrist injury (I don't believe it's completely healed yet), and Mike Brown is playing him 38.5 minutes a game in a condensed season where exhaustion is sure to take place.

joelmeyersscrotalsack.. I disagree....

1. His efficiency was an issue against Detroit.
2. His efficiency was an issue last year (though he was very hurt).
3. His efficiency is an issue this year as you said.
4. His efficiency is an issue for his legacy.... because a) if he is efficient we can win the title this year and b) people judge him against Jordan on two things- Championships and shooting percentage, but shooting percentage is the glaring statistic that all the haters point out. Their TS% are very close, but the normal FG% is miles apart. I wish it weren't true, but Kobe CHOOSING to shoot difficult shots is a legacy changer. And it ultimately makes him a worse player.

ForpLAL wrote:Many people said he was done. He is still a dominant player.


Greetings from Argentina, I'm a Lakers fan despite the distance.

yo tmb soy de Argentina! De qué parte sos?

When they roll the highlight reel 20 years from now...and you see Kobe hitting those crazy shots only basketball purist will care about shooting percentage....others will just be amazed by the unbelievable degree of difficulty...

only the basketball purists will care in 20 years?

what a weak excuse for shooting bad shots. bad shots increase your chance to lose. good shots increase your chance to win. he should always work for the best shot. he'll have to hit enough tough ones without him trying to make easy shots tougher.

KB/WA/RW wrote:

ForpLAL wrote:Many people said he was done. He is still a dominant player.


Greetings from Argentina, I'm a Lakers fan despite the distance.

yo tmb soy de Argentina! De qué parte sos?

Mataderos, Capital Federal, vos??

ForpLAL wrote:

KB/WA/RW wrote:

ForpLAL wrote:Many people said he was done. He is still a dominant player.


Greetings from Argentina, I'm a Lakers fan despite the distance.

yo tmb soy de Argentina! De qué parte sos?

Mataderos, Capital Federal, vos??

Córdoba. Excelente que hayan fans de Lakers en todos lados, pensé que era el único demente que seguía así a un equipo de NBA XD

worldjunction wrote:joelmeyersscrotalsack.. I disagree....

1. His efficiency was an issue against Detroit.
2. His efficiency was an issue last year (though he was very hurt).
3. His efficiency is an issue this year as you said.
4. His efficiency is an issue for his legacy.... because a) if he is efficient we can win the title this year and b) people judge him against Jordan on two things- Championships and shooting percentage, but shooting percentage is the glaring statistic that all the haters point out. Their TS% are very close, but the normal FG% is miles apart. I wish it weren't true, but Kobe CHOOSING to shoot difficult shots is a legacy changer. And it ultimately makes him a worse player.

it hardly matters, for most of Kobe's career he has shot the ball at decent efficiency regardless of how much lower his FG% is than Jordan's. FG% doesn't tell you anything about efficiency.

trodgers wrote:

ktate14 wrote:All i want to know is how Kobe makes those shots going to his left...can you take a more difficult shot to end a game???

I have a thought about this. Happy to be shown that I'm wrong.

If you're defending him, then you're shuffling sideways or you're running. If you're shuffling, your right hand, which most people use to block, is far away from his shooting arm (on the opposite sides of your--collectively--bodies). If you're running, then your blocking arm is even farther away. So he gets the space or he makes you try to defend with your offhand. It's maybe subtle but effective.

It's more the fact that its easier to shoot going to your left since you don't have to rotate your body as much since your right arm is already towards the basket. Going right you have to swing the body over so your right arm is facing the basket.

unless your left handed

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:

worldjunction wrote:joelmeyersscrotalsack.. I disagree....

1. His efficiency was an issue against Detroit.
2. His efficiency was an issue last year (though he was very hurt).
3. His efficiency is an issue this year as you said.
4. His efficiency is an issue for his legacy.... because a) if he is efficient we can win the title this year and b) people judge him against Jordan on two things- Championships and shooting percentage, but shooting percentage is the glaring statistic that all the haters point out. Their TS% are very close, but the normal FG% is miles apart. I wish it weren't true, but Kobe CHOOSING to shoot difficult shots is a legacy changer. And it ultimately makes him a worse player.

it hardly matters, for most of Kobe's career he has shot the ball at decent efficiency regardless of how much lower his FG% is than Jordan's. FG% doesn't tell you anything about efficiency.

Thank you. I'm not sure why but WJ puts so much stock in that statistic...

Original81 & Scrotalsack,

Why do I put so much stock in FG%? Really? Really?

If Kobe shoots bad it increases our chances to lose. If he shoots well, it increases our chances to win. It is rather simple. Jordan shot better than Kobe over the course of his career. Some of that is circumstances. Some of that is Kobe's stubborn insistence to make things harder than they have to be.

You already acknowledged that you know what TS% is so I'm not sure why you're still so hung up on a really useless stat like FG%

^ What he said. Your always concerned with efficiency yet your hung up on FG% when there are much better statistics to gauge a player's efficiency.

FG% is an outdated statistic. It tells you almost nothing on an individual level.

ladam24 wrote:FG% is an outdated statistic. It tells you almost nothing on an individual level with respect to excuses.

completed your sentence for you

The Original 81 wrote:^ What he said. Your always concerned with efficiency yet your hung up on FG% when there are much better statistics to gauge a player's efficiency.

Because he is more concerned with how Kobe is referenced when it comes to MJ than anything else. It won't matter if Kobe has a higher career FG% that MJ, if Kobe has more rings than MJ, If Kobe finishes with more MVP's that MJ, if Kobe sells more shoes than MJ or if Kobe cures cancer while winning his 9th straight Championship which MJ has never done because those who love MJ (which is the media) will always find a way to discredit Kobe's achievements. Kobe's legacy will be his legacy.

Just as with his critics he can do no right with some of his praisers he also can't do much right.

Jordan - 12,192 FGM / 24,537 FGA – 12,345 misses - 49.7%

Kobe - 10,262 FGM / 22,648 FGA – 12,386 misses - 45.3%

LOL at being hung up at 4.4%.

That's a blip on the radar when looking at 20,000 plus shots. ~800 shots is not going to be the deciding factor in any debate.


MJ TS% - 56.9%
KB TS% - 55.4%

OHH no's the gap closes even further. 1.5%......that's the dagger.

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:You already acknowledged that you know what TS% is so I'm not sure why you're still so hung up on a really useless stat like FG%

Yet a lot of people fixate on FG% when they criticize players, especially in the gameday thread. Things like "F Pau man, he's 4/12, a big shooting 33%... SMH", or "Kobe is done. Shooting 43% this season. Not even top 20 in the league"
Like you, I much rather look at the TS%, it's way more useful.

Having said that, every stat, no matter how advanced, should be accompanied with actually watching the games and analysing them. That helps to better comprehend the meaning of those stats, and more so their origin.

puffyusaf#2 wrote:

The Original 81 wrote:^ What he said. Your always concerned with efficiency yet your hung up on FG% when there are much better statistics to gauge a player's efficiency.

Because he is more concerned with how Kobe is referenced when it comes to MJ than anything else. It won't matter if Kobe has a higher career FG% that MJ, if Kobe has more rings than MJ, If Kobe finishes with more MVP's that MJ, if Kobe sells more shoes than MJ or if Kobe cures cancer while winning his 9th straight Championship which MJ has never done because those who love MJ (which is the media) will always find a way to discredit Kobe's achievements. Kobe's legacy will be his legacy.

Just as with his critics he can do no right with some of his praisers he also can't do much right.

The Epic Legacy MJ have been put on such a high White Pedestal that even the real MJ can't even compete.

brickshooter wrote:

puffyusaf#2 wrote:

The Original 81 wrote:^ What he said. Your always concerned with efficiency yet your hung up on FG% when there are much better statistics to gauge a player's efficiency.

Because he is more concerned with how Kobe is referenced when it comes to MJ than anything else. It won't matter if Kobe has a higher career FG% that MJ, if Kobe has more rings than MJ, If Kobe finishes with more MVP's that MJ, if Kobe sells more shoes than MJ or if Kobe cures cancer while winning his 9th straight Championship which MJ has never done because those who love MJ (which is the media) will always find a way to discredit Kobe's achievements. Kobe's legacy will be his legacy.

Just as with his critics he can do no right with some of his praisers he also can't do much right.

The Epic Legacy MJ have been put on such a high White Pedestal that even the real MJ can't even compete.

haha so true.