Kobe the Closer

Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby ForpLAL on Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:49 am

TIME wrote:
ForpLAL wrote:Many people said he was done. He is still a dominant player.


Greetings from Argentina, I'm a Lakers fan despite the distance.


Welcome to the site Argentina!


Thanks a lot, a week ago I startd reading the forum to update myself and decided to register today.

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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby worldjunction on Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:57 am

pjdiddy...

don't you see though why some of us who are still huge fans of his get so, so frustrated with him? he has never had two months of 40% shooting in a row. it led some us to think that maybe his body just wasn't right... maybe he lost just that little bit of lift necessary. but then he has three games like this past week.

it PROVES that he doesn't have to shoot that bad. it is only out of sheer stubborness that he takes bad shots, that he forces things, or just takes shots that aren't necessarily bad but at aren't as good as the open jumper he had a second before.

that is why we get frustrated... it is his own doing. i personally think he is more skilled than jordan (and significanlty so). but skill don't make you the better player. it is skills plus action. jordan made it a goal to play efficiently. kobe makes it a goal to wow people with his brilliance, even if that means taking a bad shot.

now, i don't think kobe needs to shoot 50%... with zones, box and ones, etc. that would be very difficult (especially with big guys clogging the lane and not so great 3pt shooters who fail to spread the floor). but is 47% or 48% so much to ask for?

believe me.. if he shot 47% or 48% the comparisons to jordan would be taken much more seriously by a lot of people. in his race to be considered the greatest player of all time, kobe can be his own worst enemy.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:59 am

Kobe's efficiency has never been an issue until this season. Yeah it took a decent hit from 09-11 but that was mostly due to injury. Now he's relatively healthy and can't seem to play well which is what concerns a lot of people. But these last few games have shown he's still capable of playing well so long as he doesn't try to do everything himself.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby XXIV on Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:04 pm

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:Kobe's efficiency has never been an issue until this season. Yeah it took a decent hit from 09-11 but that was mostly due to injury. Now he's relatively healthy and can't seem to play well which is what concerns a lot of people. But these last few games have shown he's still capable of playing well so long as he doesn't try to do everything himself.


He's still dealing with that wrist injury (I don't believe it's completely healed yet), and Mike Brown is playing him 38.5 minutes a game in a condensed season where exhaustion is sure to take place.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby worldjunction on Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:48 pm

joelmeyersscrotalsack.. I disagree....

1. His efficiency was an issue against Detroit.
2. His efficiency was an issue last year (though he was very hurt).
3. His efficiency is an issue this year as you said.
4. His efficiency is an issue for his legacy.... because a) if he is efficient we can win the title this year and b) people judge him against Jordan on two things- Championships and shooting percentage, but shooting percentage is the glaring statistic that all the haters point out. Their TS% are very close, but the normal FG% is miles apart. I wish it weren't true, but Kobe CHOOSING to shoot difficult shots is a legacy changer. And it ultimately makes him a worse player.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby Finwë on Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:08 pm

ForpLAL wrote:Many people said he was done. He is still a dominant player.


Greetings from Argentina, I'm a Lakers fan despite the distance.

yo tmb soy de Argentina! De qué parte sos?
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby Thenextgreat on Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:09 pm

When they roll the highlight reel 20 years from now...and you see Kobe hitting those crazy shots only basketball purist will care about shooting percentage....others will just be amazed by the unbelievable degree of difficulty...
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby worldjunction on Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:35 pm

only the basketball purists will care in 20 years?

what a weak excuse for shooting bad shots. bad shots increase your chance to lose. good shots increase your chance to win. he should always work for the best shot. he'll have to hit enough tough ones without him trying to make easy shots tougher. :bang:
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby ForpLAL on Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:25 pm

KB/WA/RW wrote:
ForpLAL wrote:Many people said he was done. He is still a dominant player.


Greetings from Argentina, I'm a Lakers fan despite the distance.

yo tmb soy de Argentina! De qué parte sos?


Mataderos, Capital Federal, vos??
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby The Rock on Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:35 pm

Clutch time is defined as the last five minutes of the fourth quarter or overtime with a score differential of five points or less. And until March, Bryant, despite his reputation, wasn’t performing very well in the clutch.

Through March 7, Bryant was shooting 19-for-71 (27 percent) in clutch time. Since then, he’s 20-for-38 (53 percent). And as a bonus, he’s also getting to the line more often.


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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby Finwë on Thu Apr 05, 2012 4:40 pm

ForpLAL wrote:
KB/WA/RW wrote:
ForpLAL wrote:Many people said he was done. He is still a dominant player.


Greetings from Argentina, I'm a Lakers fan despite the distance.

yo tmb soy de Argentina! De qué parte sos?


Mataderos, Capital Federal, vos??

Córdoba. Excelente que hayan fans de Lakers en todos lados, pensé que era el único demente que seguía así a un equipo de NBA XD
"The first time I ever saw my uniform hanging in the locker I put it on right away, and it just felt like I was putting on golden armour. From that day forward, I just called it 'the golden armour', it just felt like there was something mystical and magical about it" - Kobe Bryant.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:27 pm

worldjunction wrote:joelmeyersscrotalsack.. I disagree....

1. His efficiency was an issue against Detroit.
2. His efficiency was an issue last year (though he was very hurt).
3. His efficiency is an issue this year as you said.
4. His efficiency is an issue for his legacy.... because a) if he is efficient we can win the title this year and b) people judge him against Jordan on two things- Championships and shooting percentage, but shooting percentage is the glaring statistic that all the haters point out. Their TS% are very close, but the normal FG% is miles apart. I wish it weren't true, but Kobe CHOOSING to shoot difficult shots is a legacy changer. And it ultimately makes him a worse player.


it hardly matters, for most of Kobe's career he has shot the ball at decent efficiency regardless of how much lower his FG% is than Jordan's. FG% doesn't tell you anything about efficiency.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby Ras Algethi on Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:38 pm

trodgers wrote:
ktate14 wrote:All i want to know is how Kobe makes those shots going to his left...can you take a more difficult shot to end a game???

I have a thought about this. Happy to be shown that I'm wrong.

If you're defending him, then you're shuffling sideways or you're running. If you're shuffling, your right hand, which most people use to block, is far away from his shooting arm (on the opposite sides of your--collectively--bodies). If you're running, then your blocking arm is even farther away. So he gets the space or he makes you try to defend with your offhand. It's maybe subtle but effective.


It's more the fact that its easier to shoot going to your left since you don't have to rotate your body as much since your right arm is already towards the basket. Going right you have to swing the body over so your right arm is facing the basket.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby last stand on Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:45 pm

unless your left handed :man12:
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby The Original 81 on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:42 pm

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:
worldjunction wrote:joelmeyersscrotalsack.. I disagree....

1. His efficiency was an issue against Detroit.
2. His efficiency was an issue last year (though he was very hurt).
3. His efficiency is an issue this year as you said.
4. His efficiency is an issue for his legacy.... because a) if he is efficient we can win the title this year and b) people judge him against Jordan on two things- Championships and shooting percentage, but shooting percentage is the glaring statistic that all the haters point out. Their TS% are very close, but the normal FG% is miles apart. I wish it weren't true, but Kobe CHOOSING to shoot difficult shots is a legacy changer. And it ultimately makes him a worse player.


it hardly matters, for most of Kobe's career he has shot the ball at decent efficiency regardless of how much lower his FG% is than Jordan's. FG% doesn't tell you anything about efficiency.


Thank you. I'm not sure why but WJ puts so much stock in that statistic...
"Let me say one more thing about Kobe. He will be the best player in the history of the game. If he keeps doing what he's doing, there is no stopping him. He is that good." - Shaquille O'Neal in his autobiography, "Shaq Talks Back"
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby worldjunction on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:51 pm

Original81 & Scrotalsack,

Why do I put so much stock in FG%? Really? Really?

If Kobe shoots bad it increases our chances to lose. If he shoots well, it increases our chances to win. It is rather simple. Jordan shot better than Kobe over the course of his career. Some of that is circumstances. Some of that is Kobe's stubborn insistence to make things harder than they have to be.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:57 pm

You already acknowledged that you know what TS% is so I'm not sure why you're still so hung up on a really useless stat like FG%
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby The Original 81 on Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:01 am

^ What he said. Your always concerned with efficiency yet your hung up on FG% when there are much better statistics to gauge a player's efficiency.
"Let me say one more thing about Kobe. He will be the best player in the history of the game. If he keeps doing what he's doing, there is no stopping him. He is that good." - Shaquille O'Neal in his autobiography, "Shaq Talks Back"
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby ladam24 on Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:42 am

FG% is an outdated statistic. It tells you almost nothing on an individual level.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby KB24 on Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:40 am

ladam24 wrote:FG% is an outdated statistic. It tells you almost nothing on an individual level with respect to excuses.


completed your sentence for you
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby puffyusaf#2 on Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:19 am

The Original 81 wrote:^ What he said. Your always concerned with efficiency yet your hung up on FG% when there are much better statistics to gauge a player's efficiency.


Because he is more concerned with how Kobe is referenced when it comes to MJ than anything else. It won't matter if Kobe has a higher career FG% that MJ, if Kobe has more rings than MJ, If Kobe finishes with more MVP's that MJ, if Kobe sells more shoes than MJ or if Kobe cures cancer while winning his 9th straight Championship which MJ has never done because those who love MJ (which is the media) will always find a way to discredit Kobe's achievements. Kobe's legacy will be his legacy.

Just as with his critics he can do no right with some of his praisers he also can't do much right.
For what it's worth, the Lakers also clinched the Pacific Division, an achievement Bryant dismissed by saying "We don't hang divisions." No, only the big NBA championship banners are considered wall-worthy for the Lakers.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby Doc Brown on Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:38 am

Jordan - 12,192 FGM / 24,537 FGA – 12,345 misses - 49.7%

Kobe - 10,262 FGM / 22,648 FGA – 12,386 misses - 45.3%

LOL at being hung up at 4.4%.

That's a blip on the radar when looking at 20,000 plus shots. ~800 shots is not going to be the deciding factor in any debate.


MJ TS% - 56.9%
KB TS% - 55.4%

OHH no's the gap closes even further. 1.5%......that's the dagger.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby Finwë on Fri Apr 06, 2012 10:36 am

JoelMyersScrotalSack wrote:You already acknowledged that you know what TS% is so I'm not sure why you're still so hung up on a really useless stat like FG%

Yet a lot of people fixate on FG% when they criticize players, especially in the gameday thread. Things like "F Pau man, he's 4/12, a big shooting 33%... SMH", or "Kobe is done. Shooting 43% this season. Not even top 20 in the league"
Like you, I much rather look at the TS%, it's way more useful.

Having said that, every stat, no matter how advanced, should be accompanied with actually watching the games and analysing them. That helps to better comprehend the meaning of those stats, and more so their origin.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby brickshooter on Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:47 am

puffyusaf#2 wrote:
The Original 81 wrote:^ What he said. Your always concerned with efficiency yet your hung up on FG% when there are much better statistics to gauge a player's efficiency.


Because he is more concerned with how Kobe is referenced when it comes to MJ than anything else. It won't matter if Kobe has a higher career FG% that MJ, if Kobe has more rings than MJ, If Kobe finishes with more MVP's that MJ, if Kobe sells more shoes than MJ or if Kobe cures cancer while winning his 9th straight Championship which MJ has never done because those who love MJ (which is the media) will always find a way to discredit Kobe's achievements. Kobe's legacy will be his legacy.

Just as with his critics he can do no right with some of his praisers he also can't do much right.



The Epic Legacy MJ have been put on such a high White Pedestal that even the real MJ can't even compete.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby The Original 81 on Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:28 pm

brickshooter wrote:
puffyusaf#2 wrote:
The Original 81 wrote:^ What he said. Your always concerned with efficiency yet your hung up on FG% when there are much better statistics to gauge a player's efficiency.


Because he is more concerned with how Kobe is referenced when it comes to MJ than anything else. It won't matter if Kobe has a higher career FG% that MJ, if Kobe has more rings than MJ, If Kobe finishes with more MVP's that MJ, if Kobe sells more shoes than MJ or if Kobe cures cancer while winning his 9th straight Championship which MJ has never done because those who love MJ (which is the media) will always find a way to discredit Kobe's achievements. Kobe's legacy will be his legacy.

Just as with his critics he can do no right with some of his praisers he also can't do much right.



The Epic Legacy MJ have been put on such a high White Pedestal that even the real MJ can't even compete.


haha so true.
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