Kobe the Closer

Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby Jacks3 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:48 pm

lol. The only reason we were even in that position is because dude went like 0-6 over a three-minute span. It was ridiculous. Exactly like the Philly game.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:51 pm

Kobe had to make the game winner..... I wouldn't say he "closed" all that well though..... neither did anyone else though....
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:51 pm

Jacks3 wrote:lol. The only reason we were even in that position is because dude went like 0-6 over a three-minute span. It was ridiculous. Exactly like the Philly game.


Sixers are a good team and the Raptors are bad...more our style I guess.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby bruddahmanmatt on Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:53 pm

I'd rather blow out a scrub team than be forced to justify crap play down the stretch by pointing to the one or two "clutch" plays a guy made after he almost blew what should have been a gimme. Close games = more drama, but if play smart to begin with you go home with an easy W, less mileage on your legs and the bench getting some garbage time.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby revgen on Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:54 pm

Rooscooter wrote:Kobe had to make the game winner..... I wouldn't say he "closed" all that well though..... neither did anyone else though....


I don't mind him "closing" if it's anything besides ISO's. Do a Reggie Miller curl screen or do a simple P&R with Pau. Do postups in the mid-post. Anything besides ISO's.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby trodgers on Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:56 pm

Jacks3 wrote:lol. The only reason we were even in that position is because dude went like 0-6 over a three-minute span. It was ridiculous. Exactly like the Philly game.

That's the only reason? Damn, you missed a ball game.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby KB24 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:57 pm

Kobe was absolutely awful. Just made 2 ill-advised shots. He got us in that position in the first place with stupid play after stupid play...to give Kobe credit for this game is insane.

pretty much every NBA player can score more than 6 points on 8 shots and 2 FTs.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby Jacks3 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:59 pm

KB24 wrote:Kobe was absolutely awful. Just made 2 ill-advised shots. He got us in that position in the first place with stupid play after stupid play...to give Kobe credit for this game is insane.

.

this
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby JGC on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:00 pm

Let's see how many people have a case of short term memory around here. Hahaha.

So, miss 5 then make 2 down the stretch = a closer? Hmmm.... not sure about that. It was though, really, really relieving to see Kobe hit a game winner again after not seeing one for a couple years. But overall he did a terrible job closing the game out.

That missed 3 was the worst, what the heck was he thinking????
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby Doc Brown on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:00 pm

If the team didn't lay an absolute egg in the second half and end of the 1st half, this thread wouldn't even have been bumped because K-G-B would have sat the whole 4th.

Great he made a clutch as hell shot to win the game vs. a crap team. Do that vs. a good team and that shot is being taken down 20 rather than down 1.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby SK8 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:03 pm

Jacks3 wrote:
KB24 wrote:Kobe was absolutely awful. Just made 2 ill-advised shots. He got us in that position in the first place with stupid play after stupid play...to give Kobe credit for this game is insane.

.

this


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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby trodgers on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:04 pm

JGC wrote:Let's see how many people have a case of short term memory around here. Hahaha.

So, miss 5 then make 2 down the stretch = a closer? Hmmm.... not sure about that. It was though, really, really relieving to see Kobe hit a game winner again after not seeing one for a couple years. But overall he did a terrible job closing the game out.

That missed 3 was the worst, what the heck was he thinking????

Do X for much of the game, then do Y. This doesn't make the player Y.

Example 1:
Play poorly for much of the game, then hit a clutch bucket, get the steal, hit the FT. This doesn't mean he played a good game.

Example 2:
Play a good game until the end. Then miss some shots. This doesn't mean he played a bad game.

Now, you seem happy to accept Example 1 as legit but not Example 2.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby The Rock on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:07 pm

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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:11 pm

revgen wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:Kobe had to make the game winner..... I wouldn't say he "closed" all that well though..... neither did anyone else though....


I don't mind him "closing" if it's anything besides ISO's. Do a Reggie Miller curl screen or do a simple P&R with Pau. Do postups in the mid-post. Anything besides ISO's.


I'm with ya.... I've been saying it for a while. After watching the Dallas series last year I am convinced that Kobe is past the days of having a huge advantage in isolation. On the other hand, he is surgical in the post and coming off screens. The few times this year we've put him in motion toward the end of games he is un-guardable, the defense is scrambling and our other players are in motion..... all good things. The isolation Kobe plays result in all 5 defenders watching him, usually with 2 or even 3 on his side of the floor and no one moving.... all bad things.

He's the best closer in the game in the right position. It would be helpful to have another ball handling threat on the floor at the same time to keep the D honest as well.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby ElginTheGreat on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:12 pm

Yeah. Kobe just pulled us out of the hole he helped put us in. Terrible shots down the stretch for him.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby bruddahmanmatt on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:15 pm

trodgers wrote:
JGC wrote:Let's see how many people have a case of short term memory around here. Hahaha.

So, miss 5 then make 2 down the stretch = a closer? Hmmm.... not sure about that. It was though, really, really relieving to see Kobe hit a game winner again after not seeing one for a couple years. But overall he did a terrible job closing the game out.

That missed 3 was the worst, what the heck was he thinking????

Do X for much of the game, then do Y. This doesn't make the player Y.

Example 1:
Play poorly for much of the game, then hit a clutch bucket, get the steal, hit the FT. This doesn't mean he played a good game.

Example 2:
Play a good game until the end. Then miss some shots. This doesn't mean he played a bad game.

Now, you seem happy to accept Example 1 as legit but not Example 2.


Your generalizations are too broad. It's not just what he does, but how he does it. That blown shot around the rim was a great look (excellent position right at the basket), but that asinine deep three with about a minute to go was F'ing stupid regardless of how well or poorly he played prior to that point in the game. It's not just what he's doing that's upsetting a lot of folks, but how he's doing it. Taking bad shots early in the clock, taking shots when he's tripled and has a teammate set for a wide open look. Hey man, if MWP, Gasol, Murf, Blake or someone else is going to brick it, then dude is going to brick it and Bryant simply needs better help around him, but if you're going to jack up that contested 30 footer with three guys draped all over you, that BETTER be your only option, if it's not, then the shot better damn well go in. Most of us are mad because Kobe seems to be too stubborn to use a pick or allow his teammates to do things which help him to get better looks. It's as if his pride prevents him from doing anything other than isolating late in games.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby trodgers on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:22 pm

Playing poorly is as much a matter of how one does it as it is how things end up. Kobe takes tough shots. Kobe doesn't always trust his teammates. But taking tough shots and not trusting teammates are sometimes the right thing to do.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:23 pm

^^Something I've noticed in the last few games is how Kobe is playing out of a timeout. At least 4 times he has launched a 3 with half the clock remaining out of a timeout. What's that about. Today his 28 foot 30 footer was out of a timeout and we ran an entire 5 seconds off the clock on that one.

Kobe isn't our problem... he's made some bone head plays but so have a lot of others...... Starting with Stern and the other owners. Our mess isn't because of Kobe, Andrew or Pau..... they are the reason we have any wins at all....
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby trodgers on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:27 pm

I don't think Kobe is playing perfect basketball. I admit that he's making some questionable moves, he sometimes looks tired, and he's dogging it a bit on D. But I'm just saying he's not THE problem; in fact, I think he's playing better than maybe anyone on the team. He could improve, but improving this team isn't a question of Kobe getting better. It's sets, it's effort, and it might be another Guard.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby JoelMyersScrotalSack on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:38 pm

Kobe playing better than anyone else on the team...is not exactly a compliment though.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:43 pm

I'm still amazed by his ability to take terrible shots after 15 seasons in the league
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby Rooscooter on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:48 pm

trodgers wrote:I don't think Kobe is playing perfect basketball. I admit that he's making some questionable moves, he sometimes looks tired, and he's dogging it a bit on D. But I'm just saying he's not THE problem; in fact, I think he's playing better than maybe anyone on the team. He could improve, but improving this team isn't a question of Kobe getting better. It's sets, it's effort, and it might be another Guard.


I'm becoming convinced that our offense would be completely different with a threat to take it to the hoop on the team. We have absolutely no one that can get in the paint on a consistent basis. Just the threat of that opens the floor for so much movement, mismatches and open shots... At this point in his career Kobe would benefit from this more than just about anyone else. Making him the initiator after 15 years of being the complete opposite has left him seemingly confused at time and forcing things. WTS his play isn't our problem..... not at all....
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby Ariza68 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:56 pm

trodgers wrote:Playing poorly is as much a matter of how one does it as it is how things end up. Kobe takes tough shots. Kobe doesn't always trust his teammates. But taking tough shots and not trusting teammates are sometimes the right thing to do.


Agree. Sometimes instead of trusting his teammates he better goes through sequences like this:

(82 - 78) 05:14 Bryant jump shot: missed
(82 - 81) 04:34 Bryant Running Jump Shot: Missed
(84 - 81) 04:04 Bryant Driving Reverse Layup Shot: Missed Block: Gray (1 BLK)
(84 - 81) 03:32 Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed
(84 - 84) 02:56 Bryant Jump Shot: Missed
(84 - 86) 02:22 Bryant Turnaround Fadeaway shot: Missed
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby bruddahmanmatt on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:57 pm

Rooscooter wrote:
trodgers wrote:I don't think Kobe is playing perfect basketball. I admit that he's making some questionable moves, he sometimes looks tired, and he's dogging it a bit on D. But I'm just saying he's not THE problem; in fact, I think he's playing better than maybe anyone on the team. He could improve, but improving this team isn't a question of Kobe getting better. It's sets, it's effort, and it might be another Guard.


I'm becoming convinced that our offense would be completely different with a threat to take it to the hoop on the team. We have absolutely no one that can get in the paint on a consistent basis. Just the threat of that opens the floor for so much movement, mismatches and open shots... At this point in his career Kobe would benefit from this more than just about anyone else. Making him the initiator after 15 years of being the complete opposite has left him seemingly confused at time and forcing things. WTS his play isn't our problem..... not at all....


Yes and no. His play isn't our biggest problem, and when he does things within his capacity, he's obviously our best player. However it's when he tries to do things he's no longer capable of that he F's us, especially down the stretch in close games. There was no need for that bomb three, five seconds into the shot clock @ 3:30ish to go in the 4th today. When he does things like that he absolutely becomes a problem. That's a dumb shot and dumb decision making on his part.
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Re: Kobe the Closer

Postby Forward Three on Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:59 pm

Kobe dug the team a hole, and then he dug the team out of it.
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