Mike D'Antoni Discussion: RESIGNS AS LAKERS COACH (184)

Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby Slurpee22 on Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:26 am

Of course, it's not a story..... the Magic are worse then bad... and it would suck to see us lose against a team like the Magic.... I might literally cry if we lose tonight... it means our era of Lakers basketball is over.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby Punk-101 on Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:34 am

Slurpee22 wrote:Of course, it's not a story..... the Magic are worse then bad... and it would suck to see us lose against a team like the Magic.... I might literally cry if we lose tonight... it means our era of Lakers basketball is over.


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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby Weezy on Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:50 pm

Slurpee22 wrote:Of course, it's not a story..... the Magic are worse then bad... and it would suck to see us lose against a team like the Magic.... I might literally cry if we lose tonight... it means our era of Lakers basketball is over.


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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby Slurpee22 on Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:22 pm

I gotta admit, Mike Brown was a awful coach... but at least he took us to the 2nd round and almost beat the Thunder in the shorten lock-out season.... but MDA really takes the cake..... I can't believe we have to witness his crappy coaching almost every game.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby Lakerjones on Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:09 am

I'm basically counting down the days until this buffoon is gone. If he's not fired by the end of the year then someone's head needs to roll. Probably Jim's since he's the guy in charge at this juncture.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby Weezy on Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:15 am

If he's not fired at the end of the season I will literally lose faith in our front office. Keeping him now so as to not have to pay someone new to also lose, or to not look bad as a franchise, or to wait and see who becomes available as the season goes along or ends, fine. Keeping him beyond that, I'd personally say the front office has lost their way or their minds if that happens. Again, I don't want him around beyond this season, I don't want him giving input on trades, signings, or the draft, I don't want players acquired to "fit his system".
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby Lakerjones on Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:22 am

Weezy wrote:If he's not fired at the end of the season I will literally lose faith in our front office. Keeping him now so as to not have to pay someone new to also lose, or to not look bad as a franchise, or to wait and see who becomes available as the season goes along or ends, fine. Keeping him beyond that, I'd personally say the front office has lost their way or their minds if that happens. Again, I don't want him around beyond this season, I don't want him giving input on trades, signings, or the draft, I don't want players acquired to "fit his system".


:bow: Absolutely agree. What more is there to find out? He sucks. Experiment over.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby Weezy on Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:38 am

'Antoni has created a real defensive identity for this team. Cliches about having to stop teams, play with energy, that'll really turn things around. I love how Ding brings out 'Antoni talks defense, but then goes and starts or rewards offense first players with more time.

ORLANDO, Fla. — It sunk in for Pau Gasol on Friday night.

Even if he steps it up, and he has indeed looked more like his old championship self lately, the Los Angeles Lakers don’t have enough to do anything.

“When you lose against the worst teams in the league, you have to ask yourself why—and what does that make you?” Gasol said glumly after the loss to the Orlando Magic.

The Magic were 11-32. The Magic were 1-14 without injured center Nik Vucevic. The Magic were 1-12 in the past 13 games.

(The Lakers had already lost to almost all of the other dregs: the New Orleans Pelicans, Washington Wizards, Utah Jazz, Philadelphia 76ers, Milwaukee Bucks and Cleveland Cavaliers.)

This game between the two teams Dwight Howard left behind was decided by who the Magic got in the four-team trade of Howard to the Lakers: Even with rising star Vucevic concussed, there was Arron Afflalo dominating the decisive third quarter with 12 points, three assists and one turnover.

Afflalo has had a fantastic season as Orlando’s main man, and Magic coach Jacque Vaughn said before the game it’s time for the next growth stage for Afflalo since opponents are locking in on him and double-teaming him. He was up to the challenge against the Lakers, although Gasol wasn’t about to give anyone too much credit for shredding his team’s defense.

“Now every team in the league knows the Lakers are not very good defensively,” Gasol said. “To say the least.”

None of the players the Lakers got in the monster trade is on the team anymore: Howard spurned the Lakers to jump to the Houston Rockets in free agency. Earl Clark left for the Cleveland Cavaliers. Chris Duhon was so undesirable the Lakers cut him and are eating part of his salary.

The Lakers, to be fair, didn’t give up much (Andrew Bynum, Josh McRoberts, Christian Eyenga) to get one awkward season and that unfulfilled hope in Howard, but the Magic will have the Lakers’ 2017 first-round draft choice, too.

And Howard’s absence is the fundamental reason we entered this season wondering how the Lakers were ever going to stop anyone. Their defenselessness is no sudden development.

Gasol isn’t a legit paint protector, and even when he does stop penetration, it has become commonplace for him to make his little hand gestures after opponent baskets to show when a teammate hasn’t shifted over to rotate and help him. Gasol has complained about lack of communication on defense time after time.

The Lakers also haven’t established any effort-based defensive identity. Coach Mike D’Antoni acknowledged before the game Friday night that the basic element he needs is “consistent energy” within the defensive scheme.

And it’s fair to question, no matter how much misinterpretation there might be over the pace-adjusted defensive rankings of D’Antoni’s Phoenix Suns teams, why D’Antoni can’t elicit that defensive energy.

“Somehow we’ve got to find a way to stop people,” he said after this loss, the Lakers’ 15th in 18 games.

You might think without Kobe Bryant, injured for all 18 of those games, the Lakers would seize an opportunity to emphasize defense. Hasn’t happened. The Lakers’ format of scoring to feel good and seeing if defensive attentiveness happens to catapult from that energy has not paid off.

Wesley Johnson was purported to be the Lakers’ defensive stopper, but he has lost D’Antoni’s trust—with good reason. Just as was the knock on Johnson coming in, he has been lacking in drive to excel and is far softer than Gasol ever was.

But with all the lineup shuffling D’Antoni has done, he also keeps leaning back toward offense over defense in allocating minutes—with Ryan Kelly playing over Jordan Hill or Robert Sacre, Nick Young or Jodie Meeks over Johnson.

And Gasol’s point in his postgame comments about the Lakers’ defensive reputation is that opponents now come into games confident and comfortable that they’ll get to the spots on the floor they want against the Lakers.

The Magic are a feeble half-court offensive team. But they got plenty in transition against the Lakers, benefited from Afflalo getting all his favorite shots and turned a focus on Kelly’s weak defense into Tobias Harris becoming the 20th player to get his season high against the Lakers.

D’Antoni is most definitely not Gasol’s favorite guy; Gasol is in the last year of his contract anyway, with the Lakers basically having no intention of re-signing him. It’s natural for his loyalty to be lagging as the losses pile up.

He does take a lot of pride in his personal stats, and he has been putting up sweet ones for almost a month now. But Gasol’s baseline feeling is winning: His teams have qualified for the playoffs nine out of the past 10 years.

The lone exception was 2006-07, when things got so bad in Memphis that Gasol was traded the next season.

The way Gasol spoke Friday night, muttering about accepting the reality of what this team is, he sounded frustrated enough to wonder about the upside of the Lakers finally trading him away.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby charvin on Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:11 am

karacha wrote:Wow, that's a horrible position to be in. Maybe Pau is saluting him, waving at him or something.... I'm not sure.


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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby wcsoldier81 on Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:00 am

MDA and Pau talking about defense is the equivalent of North Korea talking about democracy ....
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby revgen on Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:03 am

Stu said during the broadcast that this team doesn't have an identity.

We do have an identity. Play at a fast pace. Spread the floor. Shoot the 3. Outscore other teams. It's just not winning us any games.

And for good reason. Even the worst offensive teams score 92 points a game. The best defensive teams allow 89 points a game. If the best defensive team in the league is holding teams below what the worst offensive team is averaging, that has to tell you something. Obviously, offense does matter too. You can't be like the JVG Houston Rockets and only put your eggs into the defensive end of the floor. But defense must be part of your identity if you want to have long term success. Whether it's defensive habits (JVG & SVG), defensive matchups (length and size, especially at the guard position) paired with a transition-defense friendly offense (Phil Jackson), or putting defensive specialists around a superstar and slowing down the pace (Mike Brown in Cleveland, Larry Brown in Philly with AI), defense of some kind must be utlized in the NBA to be successful.

D'Antoni even utlized some defensive specialists like Raja Bell and Marion when he was in Phoenix. Marion and Bell were basically used as Whack-A-Moles on players who were getting hot. Not exactly what I'd call a "defensive identity", but it worked well enough in the regular season for Phoenix to be a middle-of-the-pack defensive squad. We don't even have those kind of players on this team. Nobody can defend their man 1 vs 1 consistently.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby trodgers on Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:36 am

Weez, that was a really good article. It pulled no punches after I thought it was going to. Pau can whine all he wants - let's see the adjustments. You're an elder statesman in the league, with the accolades, with the millions and millions of dollars. Put guys in position. Instruct them. Lead by example.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby Vasashi17 on Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:46 am

Here's the problem...our offense! It kills our defense and I don't know how anybody can refute that.

I agree that the players have to step up. Pau can talk the talk all he wants, but it's time to make good on it...

But there's a problem within that problem....there is no accountability being held. With a defensive minded coach, a player who falls asleep on that end gets yanked ASAP....come take a seat! If Pau half-a**es it out there, yank him and throw in Hill, Kaman or Sacre. Who cares if we have only one PG at the moment...if Marshall doesn't D up, sit his B down.

You look at minute distribution and you see a healthy Wes, Kaman, Hill, Sacre not playing nearly the minutes they should if defense was truly a priority....and that's the point, it isn't a priority. Offensive players have free reign...especially from the 3 point line. :bang:
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby karacha on Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:51 am

Vasashi17 wrote:...Who cares if we have only one PG at the moment...if Marshall doesn't D up, sit his B down....


Uh... I don't think that would be a good idea. At all.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby Vasashi17 on Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:54 am

^^^Draft pick aside, is it winning us games having him out there? Nope...not at all. So then come take a seat!

Look our offensive superiority is doing ish....so here's a novel idea, if you truly believe defense will help get some Ws, reward players that are willing to give a damn at that end of the floor.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby Slurpee22 on Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:55 am

Vasashi17 wrote:reward players that are willing to give a damn at that end of the floor.


We don't have any, unfortunately.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby Vasashi17 on Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:58 am

^^^ Then groom them. Give players reinforcement that showing pride on defense earns them minutes. Cause guess what, rewarding offense...that's not working.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby revgen on Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:05 am

Vasashi17 wrote:Who cares if we have only one PG at the moment...if Marshall doesn't D up, sit his B down.


If he's making egregious defensive mistakes, then I don't have a problem with him being benched.

However, I see more defensive mistakes from Meeks and Johnson then I'm seeing from Marshall.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby Slurpee22 on Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:09 am

Vasashi17 wrote:^^^ Then groom them. Give players reinforcement that showing pride on defense earns them minutes. Cause guess what, rewarding offense...that's not working.


We don't have, the right coaching staff and the right defensive leaders to groom the players... our leader who is currently playing is very lazy on defense.

Thibbs would do a good job teaching defense.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby karacha on Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:15 am

Vasashi17 wrote:^^^Draft pick aside, is it winning us games having him out there? Nope...not at all. So then come take a seat!

Look our offensive superiority is doing ish....so here's a novel idea, if you truly believe defense will help get some Ws, reward players that are willing to give a damn at that end of the floor.


No, but at least he makes our players much better offensively, so they are not losing by 20+ on a consistent basis. At least that makes it look like we are sort of trying. And maybe it increses value for some of them, because they score more because of Marshall -- and that might help us trade some of them this year, in a package deal for... something. You never know.

No one else can handle the ball. Also, it's better to try to develop Marshall as much as possible, instead of making him sit down for because he makes mistakes on D. If you do that, there would be no one to play. Meeks, Pau, Swag, Kelly.... who exactly is playing consistent defense on this team? :man3:

There is no one on this team to reward for their defensive efforts. In order to do that, you have to start teaching defensive fundamentals. We don't have anyone to do that either. We need to get rid of MDA first, and Rambo is next on the list because he is literally stealing money from the Lakers right now. Then you can start enforcing some of the things you're mentioning in your posts.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby trodgers on Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:34 pm

Destroy a guy we've built up? Classic shortsighted move.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby Weezy on Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:48 pm

We kind of look... lost and terrible a lot of the time when Marshall is not on the floor. And I agree, his defense isn't so bad he needs to sit, it's not worse than so many others out there, why should he pay for it. I doubt he's being coached to be a defensive stopper anyway, plus not like he has the quickness. He's most likely following the instructions our players have seemed to get for a decade now, funnel to the big at the hoop, and with Pau that doesn't work. I don't see no defensive pride in Marshall, I see a team lost as a whole on that end, because our coach is lost on that end.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby Doc Brown on Sat Jan 25, 2014 1:32 pm

If anyone is getting sat down for their defense, it's Meeks and Pau. They are so bad on that end, it infuriates me even when we have lost 1000 games in a row.

I'm not seeing Marshall get lit up as much as those two.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby karacha on Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:02 pm

^

He doesn't. One reason is that Marshall is an OK man defender, when he can body people up. After all, he's bigger then most of them, which helps him tremendously. But due to his lack of athleticism and the "safe" style of basketball he likes to play, he can't get steals and push the ball afterwards. He can get defensive rebounds, but he can't alter shots/layups at all, because he doesn't really jump much at all. So, if he manages to stop his guy 1-on-1 on the perimeter, he's surprisingly good. But if a guy blows by him, it's over because he can't recover fast enough.

However, Marshall is not the worst defender on this team. Not even close. And he can improve. I doubt he can become a defensive stopper, but he can be pretty decent if someone actually... you know... mentors him and shows him how to do it. This a 22-year old D-league player. It's worth developing him. I doubt that, once we finally construct a good team, any games will be lost because of Marshall. He generally doesn't do anything stupid; the guy plays under control and to put it simply - he's very solid.
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Re: Mike D'Antoni Discussion: "I was an idiot..." (155)

Postby Vasashi17 on Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:50 pm

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree with the majority here.

Pau deserves a seat as do many on his teammates. Some of those that are already seated, deserve to get some play, but their skillset on offense doesn't justify it.

This is why I've been clamoring about developing players the "right way". Its all objective, but to me, you need to make defense an importance. A young guy is green-lit to shoot the ball no matter what the scenario. There are no ramifications for it. Tempo goes way up, possessions sky-rocket and all of a sudden you got guys resting/half-a**'n it on the defensive end. Again, no one is held accountable...

If we're developing players like Marshall, Kelly, Sacre and even Young in this fashion, then I'm not excited about how these players will look in the near future.
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