Mike Brown FIRED!!! (pg 126 via USA TODAY)

The Rock wrote:How about we actually give him personnel to run an offense with? Fisher is 37 years old, Barnes has always had shaky 3% shooting, Blake is our best 3 point shotoer and he's out, Kapono is a bench player who couldn't even get mins in Philly, Murphy is struggling I think he'll come around, Ebanks, Morris and G-lock dont have experience. You have so many holes in your personnel with the reality of not being capable of being productive, so how do you expect an offense to do well? Bynum is not some dominant player, he's good. (Thats like saying Monta Ellis is the 3rd best SG in the league...its true but the dropoff from Kobe/Wade to Monta is significant and thats the same gap between DH and Bynum).

Pau and Kobe look like the best is behind them even though they're still elite at their positions. You need more firepower. Nuff said. The lowest PPG average of our team since we moved to Los Angeles is 98 and we're averaging 92 points per game right now with Kobe averaging 30 a game for the 1st time in 5 years. Give our big 3 some talent to work with please, even JVG emphasized this again and again during the ORL/LAL game. Outside of Kobe you dont have alternative shot creators/play makers on the team so how do you expect them to have a crisp offense?

if you didn't have the personnel for this type of coach,why would you hire said coach to begin with? Cp3 wouldn't have solved the other problems, only PG...the shooting would've still sucked, the D would've still had problems guarding PnR because Bynum still sucks at guarding it.

^ I still think the CP3 was a precursor to another trade (ahem Dwight Howard).

But seriously if we had CP3, we would have dribble penetration. We have NONE. All we do is switch Kobe, Pau, Bynum and MWP around like musical chairs in the post again and again because we dont have the personnel to run any other type of offensive schemes. We can do pick and pop to some degree on Pau I suppose but I dont want him out there shooting 15 footers

Can we change this thread to the Mike Brown Depreciation thread?

After last night's game, I was thinking how it looked like there was no set play at the end of the game, and lo and behold, I was right!! Mike admitted that he just let Kobe do whatever he wanted at the end, with no set play. Even the commentators for the L.A. postgame analysis all felt (Kiki, Norm, and some former UCLA star) all agreed that Mike should have run a play for Kobe or someone to get open at the end.

I agree that Mike has improved the defense of this team, just look at the Dallas win. But he is CLUELESS on offense, and it seems that more often than not, when the game really needs a play to get things going, he doesn't call one.

I strongly believe that Mike needs to step over, and just be the defensive coach, and either a) let Chuck or Messina do the offense, or b) the laker brass need to hire Brian Shaw or Rambis to run the offense.

Run the triangle offense.

This roster know how to run it.

And ship Jim Buss to Siberia.

If we had Brown running the defense while Phil was our Head Coach, we'd be great. Oh well.

V.V.V.V.V. wrote:Can we change this thread to the Mike Brown Depreciation thread?

After last night's game, I was thinking how it looked like there was no set play at the end of the game, and lo and behold, I was right!! Mike admitted that he just let Kobe do whatever he wanted at the end, with no set play. Even the commentators for the L.A. postgame analysis all felt (Kiki, Norm, and some former UCLA star) all agreed that Mike should have run a play for Kobe or someone to get open at the end.

I agree that Mike has improved the defense of this team, just look at the Dallas win. But he is CLUELESS on offense, and it seems that more often than not, when the game really needs a play to get things going, he doesn't call one.

I strongly believe that Mike needs to step over, and just be the defensive coach, and either a) let Chuck or Messina do the offense, or b) the laker brass need to hire Brian Shaw or Rambis to run the offense.

^^ I agree with this. It wasn't just the last play either. The Lakers needed a time out and a play or two diagrammed before that when the Pacers cut down the lead. The lack of ability to get an easy score, or even just a diagrammed, well thought out play down the stretch has been a continuing weakness. This was a complaint often lodged against Brown in Cleveland and I think it has merit from what I've seen so far this season.

I don't think Brown needs to step down as head coach, though, but he does need to address the glaring weaknesses on offense. It's not good.

karacha wrote:If we had Brown running the defense while Phil was our Head Coach, we'd be great. Oh well.

Brown is in the mold of other HC who are better suited for assistant role, with the likes of JVG, Dantoni, etc and in football he's in the same group as the Norv Turners, Wade Phillips etc types....specialize in only 1 side of the court/field and its quite unimaginative/non outside of the box thinker on the other side of the court/field.

Should have hired the coach Kobe and most of us wanted, Adelman and brought Brown in as the defensive coach like Boston had done with Rivers and Thibodeau.

Alleyhoops wrote:Should have hired the coach Kobe and most of us wanted, Adelman and brought Brown in as the defensive coach like Boston had done with Rivers and Thibodeau.

Yup. The Brown hire was a rookie move by Jimmy. Overcompensation for a weakness (defense) while forgetting about your strength (offense).

Most cases, balance is the key to success. Which should have meant hiring Adelman or Shaw + Brown as a defensive coach.

I really miss Phil Jackson right now, and the triangle offense. The thing is, is that Kobe would listen to Phil, and he respected him, because of his success, coaching MJ, and his tenacity to win. Kobe in the triangle, was more of a team player. The Kobe I'm seeing now, is more like the Kobe before Phil came here. Kobe is relying less on his teammates(CAN YOU BLAME HIM, but he's also picking up his bad habits again of shooting at will. Unfortunately, I think Mike Brown is more, "in awe" of Kobe, his talent, and all the does for the Lakers, that he almost has given him free reign to do whatever he wants to. That's like a child always getting what he wants, because his parents don't want to cause any issues. It works temporarily, but long term-wise there are a lot of negative issues that result from something like this occurring.
I would have loved to have seen what Brian Shaw could have done with this crew. Not only did he have the luxury of learning under Phil for a decade as an assistant coach, but he also had the opportunity of playing with Fisher, Kobe and Luke(he still counts), which means he can speak from playing and coaching these guys, which how many coaches can say that?

IN spite of crappy offense systems, Kobe is still scoring 30 ppg.

This thread is for people who believe Mike Brown is doing a bad job of coaching, the Lakers are not going to win a championship under Mike Brown, and that Mike Brown should be fired as soon as possible.

I was very critical of Mike Brown when the Lakers hired him. As the Cavs coach I had the following complaints:

1. His offensive system was overly structured, slow, and pointless
2. His offense only got Lebron involved…none of this teammates were involved
3. Lebron is a point forward. Mike Brown failed to utilize him in this role
4. In the playoffs Mike Brown abandoned his structured offense completely and had Lebron do 100% of the work while his teammates stood there and watched. This proved Mike Brown had zero clue what he was doing in the playoffs. He basically just gave up.
5. In the playoffs, Mike Brown’s inability to get Lebron’s teammates involved in the regular season cost them because they had no option outside of Lebron

As a Laker coach we have already witness number 1 and number 2. His offense is pretty much pointless and only Kobe is playing well in it. Guess whats going to happen in the playoffs. The defense will zero in on Kobe and force other players to perform. The Lakers will be screwed because Kobe is the Lakers only option under Mike Brown. In the playoffs scenario 4 and 5 will come true.

Additionally I have the following complaints about Mike Brown’s offense as a Laker:

1. The offense is designed to go through Bynum but they don’t get him the ball enough
2. I like the fact that Gasol is spacing out around the perimeter more, but there are two problems: Gasol is shooting beyond his range. And Gasol is getting no touches down low. You don’t have to guard Gasol now because he’s going to take low percentage shots and will not threaten you down low
3. Mike Brown’s offense breaks down easily. If the initial set does not work, the Lakers have no options like they did in the triangle. I wouldn’t blame this problem on the players. Gasol is as clueless as anyone in Mike Brown’s offense…but he grasped the triangle in one game. If Mike Brown’s offense had any point at all to it, Gasol would figure it out.
4. Even if Mike Brown creates the most dominant defense in the league, the fact is the Lakers offense is not good enough to win a championship under any circumstance

Given the fact that Mike Brown has limited offensive knowledge and is pretty good on defense, he should have kept the triangle in along with some of Phil Jackson’s staff to help him with the triangle. Mike Brown should then have focused on defense and made his deference there. If any of you guys are football fans, just think of what Tony Dungy did with the Colts. He inherited a team with a great quarterback and a great offensive coordinator, so he just focused on improving the defense. And he did a good job there. Mike Brown should have done the same thing with the Lakers. The fact that he abandoned the triangle and installed an inferior offense shows he has a lack of decision making skills.

The Lakers starting lineup of Bynum, Gasol, Ebanks, Kobe, and Fisher is good enough to win a championship. Mike Brown should have no complaint there. I will cut Mike Brown a little slack. His bench is very thin. Had the Lakers kept Odom and Ariza, the bench would be championship material, but since they didn’t they need to improve their bench. I blame ownership for screwing their bench.

In summation, Mike Brown will never win a championship. He's just not smart enough. If the Lakers are planning on winning championship now, they should fire Mike Brown. If they are going to rebuild they can hold onto Mike Brown until they have a team ready to win a championship.

I won't lock this.

Instead I'll merge it with Brown's existing thread and change it to a "discussion thread".

I was going to suggest changing it to a "Mike Brown Discussion Thread" as well. I really don't know what the hell we have to appreciate him for.

therealdeal wrote:I won't lock this.

Instead I'll merge it with Brown's existing thread and change it to a "discussion thread".

What the hell? If I wanted to post to the "Mike Brown appreciation thread", I would have done so. I created a new topic because disagreeing with Mike Brown and worshiping his nutsack are two different topics.

tttppp wrote:

therealdeal wrote:I won't lock this.

Instead I'll merge it with Brown's existing thread and change it to a "discussion thread".

What the hell? You didn't do this with the "Mike Brown Appreciation Thread". Why are you doing this with my thread?

Because it makes sense. We are talking Mike Brown. Good or bad.

borri wrote:

tttppp wrote:

therealdeal wrote:I won't lock this.

Instead I'll merge it with Brown's existing thread and change it to a "discussion thread".

What the hell? You didn't do this with the "Mike Brown Appreciation Thread". Why are you doing this with my thread?

Because it makes sense. We are talking Mike Brown. Good or bad.

If someone has the right to create an appreciation thread, then someone should have the right to create an unappreciation thread.

^ By changing the title to 'Mike Brown Discussion Thread' we killed two birds with one stone.

tttppp wrote:If someone has the right to create an appreciation thread, then someone should have the right to create an unappreciation thread.

I'm really not seeing the issue here. This is the Mike Brown thread, just like the Fisher appreciation, Luke appreciation, Artest appreciation, and even Kobe appreciation threads eventually turned into just plain 'discussion' threads, so has this one. What is the problem? That you didn't start it? Internet, not that serious.

I really wasn't expecting such opposition to that.

The fact is we don't want this forum cluttered with too many similar threads. Your thread idea was fine, but there was already a 6 page thread discussing the pros and cons of Mike Brown. As I stated, I made it into a "discussion" thread. This is no longer an "appreciation" thread.

Feel free to bash him all you'd like in this thread.

a good/great coach can adapt, I know this is a bad example since they lost in the 1st rd last year, but Spurs managed to change their offensive scheme last year with basically the same personnel as prior year that had them playing slow and more half court. They played less D but they had one of their best offensive season ever. So its not always just having the right personel for the right coach/offense. However I just dont think Brown adapts to his team or changes to the situation, his system is rigid even if its not working. I remember the Cavs/Orl series in 09, it was weird Cavs would get off to hot starts and usually got up BIG in the 1st/2nd qtr and yet Orl stll came back and won those games, I dont know why but I just assume Van Gundy made changes to his D while Brown didn't.

borri wrote:

Alleyhoops wrote:Should have hired the coach Kobe and most of us wanted, Adelman and brought Brown in as the defensive coach like Boston had done with Rivers and Thibodeau.

Yup. The Brown hire was a rookie move by Jimmy. Overcompensation for a weakness (defense) while forgetting about your strength (offense).

Most cases, balance is the key to success. Which should have meant hiring Adelman or Shaw + Brown as a defensive coach.

I still think Adelman was the no-brainer coaching hire. While I like Shaw as a person his closeness with Phil was going to be a problem with Jim - one can easily see that. And his lack of experience made him a much lesser candidate than a COY like Brown.

But Adelman was hands down the right fit for the personnel. A veteran coach for a veteran club. He runs a system close enough to the Triangle that there wouldn't be that great of a learning curve. And in some ways it would have been an even better fit for us than the Tri. The Pau/Kobe pick and roll would have been a staple. Pau in the high post would have been a staple. Pau's passing would have been better utilized than what we are running now and the twin towers would have an easier time co-existing.

Would the D be as good? Maybe not. But the D was pretty strong in Houston even under Adelman.

Realistically I don't think Brown would have signed on for anything less than head coach, so there wasn't a way to make him a defensive coach under Adelman. He would have just taken the GSW job. Which actually would have been a better fit for him I believe. A young team that he could mold - some great guards to run his system.

Clearly, it's way too early to judge or give up on Brown. He needs a full season to see where he stands. But on paper it always seemed to me that Adelman was the best coach for this particular team. He would have implemented a sophisticated enough offense that could showcase and utilize the talent that we have, and he's a very good players coach - one of the best in the biz, actually. Plus Kobe would have respected him. And I know Adelman was hot to coach Kobe.

Any coach that starts Fisher at this stage does not know anything about the NBA.

would it be wrong of me to ask for his HEAD if they lose badly again tonight?

Whatthef? wrote:Any coach that starts Fisher at this stage does not know anything about the NBA.

I hope you're not suggesting to start Darius Morris.