NJ Paper: RJ to Lakers a real possibility

Postby Mando323 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:20 pm

if this happens, don't let luke and RJ sleep in the same room, they might not be able to walk next game :mhihi:
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Postby KingKobe on Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:25 pm

Here's the pros and cons of our top 3 choices...

Artest
Pros: Strong Defense, Creates own Shot, Lock for 15-20 pts per game
Cons: Suspensions, Vacations, Anger Management

Marion
Pros: Strong Defense, Rebounding, Shot Blocking, Lock for 15-20 pts per game
Cons: 31 yrs old, wants MONEY

RJ
Pros: Solid Scorer (18-22 pts per), Avg in rebounding, and defense at the 3
Cons: Not superior in Defense, 3 yrs and $40mm+ left on deal
"Get me Richard Jefferson!!"
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Postby Lakerjones on Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:30 pm

KingKobe wrote:Here's the pros and cons of our top 3 choices...

Artest
Pros: Strong Defense, Creates own Shot, Lock for 15-20 pts per game
Cons: Suspensions, Vacations, Anger Management

Marion
Pros: Strong Defense, Rebounding, Shot Blocking, Lock for 15-20 pts per game
Cons: 31 yrs old, wants MONEY

RJ
Pros: Solid Scorer (18-22 pts per), Avg in rebounding, and defense at the 3
Cons: Not superior in Defense, 3 yrs and $40mm+ left on deal


Great post! LOL at the cons from Artest and Marion! Too true!

:bow:
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Postby dvdrdiscs on Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:35 pm

wallangong wrote:
dvdrdiscs wrote:
Vincey wrote:How are you guys so certain he can't play the 3? You guys crack me up.

None of us know how the chemistry will change, how the ball will move, and how the general offense flows with Andrew coming back.

Sure I am open to moving Odom, but I really don't understand how anyone is definitively saying Odom has no chance to play the 3. And there's no logic in saying "since he couldn't play the 4, he won't be able to play the 3." What the Hell?



You speak of logic yet you exhibit none. At the 4, Lamar can't hit the midrange. Think he can do it at the 3? How about that 3PT FG% of his eh? He'll be getting wide open 3's all day playing SF. Think he can hit it consistently and make his defender pay?

Ever seen Lamar drive to the basket? Ever seen his slashing game? Non existent right? How about this, ever seen him commit charges while driving to the hoop?

Think Lamar can defend other SF? Yeah Lamar is long but he's not fast enough.

Hence, I've used logic to show you why Lamar at SF won't work. Besides, did you not see Lamar playing SF in the beginning of the season? Don't even use injury as an excuse. The guy was LOST.

Thank you. Come again!


this post reminds why i take opinion's on CL with even less than a grain of salt.

1) been beaten to death, but the last 2 years, Lamar was not asked to be a 3pt shooter. he's been playing PF. it's convenient to ignore that 3 years ago he attempted over 200 threes and made 37%. Prior to that year, he shot in the 30% range every year but 1. Not lights out, but not as bad as you'd like us to think.

2) to go along with point 1, the last 2 years he didn't get to work on his game in the offseason. not because he chose not to, he COULDN'T.

3) Never drive to the basket? never slash? did you even watch the Lakers this year? especially in the 2nd half of the season.

4) returning from an injury can't be used an excuse as to why he looked like he was playing in preseason early this year? i think anyone who's played basketball long enough will tell you, if you miss a few months, you're going to feel lost out there for a while, especially when changing positions AGAIN.

nothing in your rant showed the prior poster wasn't using logic. but go ahead and attack people's intelligence to further your point.

Thank YOU. Come again!



Excuses, excuses. That is the game you guys play ever since Lamar came into this team.

1) Lamar was never asked to have a 3 PT game? Are you serious? Did we not experiment him playing at the SF even before the beginning of this season? My recollection said we did and he failed miserably. Remember that stretch where Lamar lost weight to play SF and Phil eventually said f-- it and had him put back on the weight to play PF?

So you used a sample size of one year @ 37% as an indication that he can do it? In this world we follow the law of probability and the larger sample size indicates he cannot shoot a high 3PT FG%. And if you think in the 30's is a good percentage to be regarded as a threat, think again.


2) Every single year, there is an excuse for why Lamar can't do this or that during the summer. 8-9 years in the league and he has not improved any area of his game. He is the same player since his first season without any significant improvement in his game. Why is that so hard to see?

3) With Lamar's driving game, I actually wish he never drove to the basket. But he does and I never said he didn't. People credit him with being able to take his defender off the dribble but oh please. Lamar has all the physical advantage in the world and he rarely uses it to exploit his defender. He has attempted and CANNOT slash or take anyone off the dribble. His lateral movement with the ball is very limited. Not to mention he prefers his dominant hand way too much. Besides Derek Fisher, how many other guy on this team commits a charge as much as Lamar?

4) Refer to #2.


<in best Apu impersonation> Thank you. Come again!
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Postby Psychobroker on Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:36 pm

Vincey wrote:How are you guys so certain he can't play the 3? You guys crack me up.

None of us know how the chemistry will change, how the ball will move, and how the general offense flows with Andrew coming back.

Sure I am open to moving Odom, but I really don't understand how anyone is definitively saying Odom has no chance to play the 3. And there's no logic in saying "since he couldn't play the 4, he won't be able to play the 3." What the Hell?


How about...he can't shoot? We NEED a 2-way SF that can spread the floor AND play defense. RJ does both better than any SF on our team, and seems to be able to work WITHIN a system (unlike Artest). He's more offensively skilled than Battier, and athletic enough to step up his D to be as good as Batier's.
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Postby JTC on Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:36 pm

Lakerjones wrote:
KingKobe wrote:Here's the pros and cons of our top 3 choices...

Artest
Pros: Strong Defense, Creates own Shot, Lock for 15-20 pts per game
Cons: Suspensions, Vacations, Anger Management

Marion
Pros: Strong Defense, Rebounding, Shot Blocking, Lock for 15-20 pts per game
Cons: 31 yrs old, wants MONEY

RJ
Pros: Solid Scorer (18-22 pts per), Avg in rebounding, and defense at the 3
Cons: Not superior in Defense, 3 yrs and $40mm+ left on deal


Great post! LOL at the cons from Artest and Marion! Too true!

:bow:


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Postby LetHimRoll on Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:38 pm

Just to entertain the idea. How about LO + Luke and Ariza for RJ + Harris.

Our line up would be

PG- Harris, Fisher, Farmar
SG- Bryant, Sasha
SF- RJ, Vlad
PF- Gasol, Turiaf
C- Bynum, Mihm
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Postby Radner on Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:39 pm

LetHimRoll wrote:Just to entertain the idea. How about LO + Luke and Ariza for RJ + Harris.

Our line up would be

PG- Harris, Fisher, Farmar
SG- Bryant, Sasha
SF- RJ, Vlad
PF- Gasol, Turiaf
C- Bynum, Mihm


There's no way in hell the Nets are trading their franchise player (Harris).
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Postby z32 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:41 pm

One thing I don't like about the RJ deal is I have a feeling they might ask for Trevor with LO if it happens. I mean, they will be losing their star SF, so I think they might be looking at Trevor as his young, up and coming replacement.
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Postby pd23 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:43 pm

z32 wrote:One thing I don't like about the RJ deal is I have a feeling they might ask for Trevor with LO if it happens. I mean, they will be losing their star SF, so I think they might be looking at Trevor as his young, up and coming replacement.
Then the Lakers should ask for Marcus Williams and it's a done deal. See you later Ariza, but Williams is legit.
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Postby wallangong on Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:46 pm

dvdrdiscs wrote:
wallangong wrote:
dvdrdiscs wrote:
Vincey wrote:How are you guys so certain he can't play the 3? You guys crack me up.

None of us know how the chemistry will change, how the ball will move, and how the general offense flows with Andrew coming back.

Sure I am open to moving Odom, but I really don't understand how anyone is definitively saying Odom has no chance to play the 3. And there's no logic in saying "since he couldn't play the 4, he won't be able to play the 3." What the Hell?



You speak of logic yet you exhibit none. At the 4, Lamar can't hit the midrange. Think he can do it at the 3? How about that 3PT FG% of his eh? He'll be getting wide open 3's all day playing SF. Think he can hit it consistently and make his defender pay?

Ever seen Lamar drive to the basket? Ever seen his slashing game? Non existent right? How about this, ever seen him commit charges while driving to the hoop?

Think Lamar can defend other SF? Yeah Lamar is long but he's not fast enough.

Hence, I've used logic to show you why Lamar at SF won't work. Besides, did you not see Lamar playing SF in the beginning of the season? Don't even use injury as an excuse. The guy was LOST.

Thank you. Come again!


this post reminds why i take opinion's on CL with even less than a grain of salt.

1) been beaten to death, but the last 2 years, Lamar was not asked to be a 3pt shooter. he's been playing PF. it's convenient to ignore that 3 years ago he attempted over 200 threes and made 37%. Prior to that year, he shot in the 30% range every year but 1. Not lights out, but not as bad as you'd like us to think.

2) to go along with point 1, the last 2 years he didn't get to work on his game in the offseason. not because he chose not to, he COULDN'T.

3) Never drive to the basket? never slash? did you even watch the Lakers this year? especially in the 2nd half of the season.

4) returning from an injury can't be used an excuse as to why he looked like he was playing in preseason early this year? i think anyone who's played basketball long enough will tell you, if you miss a few months, you're going to feel lost out there for a while, especially when changing positions AGAIN.

nothing in your rant showed the prior poster wasn't using logic. but go ahead and attack people's intelligence to further your point.

Thank YOU. Come again!



Excuses, excuses. That is the game you guys play ever since Lamar came into this team.

1) Lamar was never asked to have a 3 PT game? Are you serious? Did we not experiment him playing at the SF even before the beginning of this season? My recollection said we did and he failed miserably. Remember that stretch where Lamar lost weight to play SF and Phil eventually said f-- it and had him put back on the weight to play PF?

So you used a sample size of one year @ 37% as an indication that he can do it? In this world we follow the law of probability and the larger sample size indicates he cannot shoot a high 3PT FG%. And if you think in the 30's is a good percentage to be regarded as a threat, think again.


2) Every single year, there is an excuse for why Lamar can't do this or that during the summer. 8-9 years in the league and he has not improved any area of his game. He is the same player since his first season without any significant improvement in his game. Why is that so hard to see?

3) With Lamar's driving game, I actually wish he never drove to the basket. But he does and I never said he didn't. People credit him with being able to take his defender off the dribble but oh please. Lamar has all the physical advantage in the world and he rarely uses it to exploit his defender. He has attempted and CANNOT slash or take anyone off the dribble. His lateral movement with the ball is very limited. Not to mention he prefers his dominant hand way too much. Besides Derek Fisher, how many other guy on this team commits a charge as much as Lamar?

4) Refer to #2.


<in best Apu impersonation> Thank you. Come again!



1) 8-10 games is hardly experimentation. and again, i never said 30% range is good for a 3pt shooter. but if you look around the league, players in the mid-30's get respect and usually have the green light to shoot. i was making the point that he's not as incompetent from 3 as you suggest.

2) actually, there's only 2 years where there has been an excuse for him not working on him game in the summer. when Lamar came to LA to play for Rudy in the run 'n gun offense, he worked on his 3 point shot and shot 37% that year. coincidence? doubtful.

3) you say his slashing game is non-existent. all it takes is to watch a few games to see a lot of points this year came off of slashing, but it's cool disregard that too.

this is not an "excuses" game. i've said in several threads i'm open to trading Odom. what i'm not open to is this constant use of him as the scapegoat saying "he can't do this, he can't do that, etc." if someone had never watched basketball before and browsed this site, you would think Lamar was the worst player on the team.

:bang: :bang: :bang:
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Postby LetHimRoll on Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:47 pm

z32 wrote:One thing I don't like about the RJ deal is I have a feeling they might ask for Trevor with LO if it happens. I mean, they will be losing their star SF, so I think they might be looking at Trevor as his young, up and coming replacement.


RJ eliminates the need for Ariza. Besides we don't have room for four small forwards.
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Postby LetHimRoll on Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:51 pm

Radner wrote:
LetHimRoll wrote:Just to entertain the idea. How about LO + Luke and Ariza for RJ + Harris.

Our line up would be

PG- Harris, Fisher, Farmar
SG- Bryant, Sasha
SF- RJ, Vlad
PF- Gasol, Turiaf
C- Bynum, Mihm


There's no way in hell the Nets are trading their franchise player (Harris).


That trade is unlikely, but I wouldn't go as far as calling Harris their franchise player.
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Postby Mando323 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:53 pm

LetHimRoll wrote:
z32 wrote:One thing I don't like about the RJ deal is I have a feeling they might ask for Trevor with LO if it happens. I mean, they will be losing their star SF, so I think they might be looking at Trevor as his young, up and coming replacement.


RJ eliminates the need for Ariza. Besides we don't have room for four small forwards.


I don't wanna lose Arizaaaa. can they take vlad or luke?
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Postby Ras Algethi on Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:53 pm

My preference:

Artest
Prince
RJ
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Postby borri on Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:57 pm

Psychobroker wrote:
Vincey wrote:How are you guys so certain he can't play the 3? You guys crack me up.

None of us know how the chemistry will change, how the ball will move, and how the general offense flows with Andrew coming back.

Sure I am open to moving Odom, but I really don't understand how anyone is definitively saying Odom has no chance to play the 3. And there's no logic in saying "since he couldn't play the 4, he won't be able to play the 3." What the Hell?


How about...he can't shoot? We NEED a 2-way SF that can spread the floor AND play defense. RJ does both better than any SF on our team, and seems to be able to work WITHIN a system (unlike Artest). He's more offensively skilled than Battier, and athletic enough to step up his D to be as good as Batier's.


I'll add to this.

1. The fact the PJ insisted on playing Vlad at the 3 with LO and PAU in the paint. PJ wants a shooter at the 3 position so badly that had to ignore the defensive liabilities of Vlad.

2. PJ sat LO in the finals and put shooters in to open up the floor.

3. Common sense......with Bynum and Pau in the paint.......I'd like to think they will need some spacing in their. With LO at the 3, they'll just pack the paint...force LO to shoot. Force Kobe to shoot. In sense disrupting the flow of our offense......turning us into a jump shooting team. We don't want that when we have to viable options down low.
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Postby LetHimRoll on Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:58 pm

Mando323 wrote:
LetHimRoll wrote:
z32 wrote:One thing I don't like about the RJ deal is I have a feeling they might ask for Trevor with LO if it happens. I mean, they will be losing their star SF, so I think they might be looking at Trevor as his young, up and coming replacement.


RJ eliminates the need for Ariza. Besides we don't have room for four small forwards.


I don't wanna lose Arizaaaa. can they take vlad or luke?


If they do, we make the trade in a heartbeat.
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Postby iggypop123 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:02 pm

LetHimRoll wrote:Just to entertain the idea. How about LO + Luke and Ariza for RJ + Harris.

Our line up would be

PG- Harris, Fisher, Farmar
SG- Bryant, Sasha
SF- RJ, Vlad
PF- Gasol, Turiaf
C- Bynum, Mihm


dont be stupid. just live with LO for jefferson and maybe their 21st pick
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Postby Savage1 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:02 pm

KingKobe wrote:Here's the pros and cons of our top 3 choices...

Artest
Pros: Strong Defense, Creates own Shot, Lock for 15-20 pts per game
Cons: Suspensions, Vacations, Anger Management

Marion
Pros: Strong Defense, Rebounding, Shot Blocking, Lock for 15-20 pts per game
Cons: 31 yrs old, wants MONEY

RJ
Pros: Solid Scorer (18-22 pts per), Avg in rebounding, and defense at the 3
Cons: Not superior in Defense, 3 yrs and $40mm+ left on deal

Pretty dead on, IMO.

I'm also concerned about Ron's ability to play in an offense that has a good deal of structure. He is known as a player that stops the offensive flow of the game. I do worry about that, but I would like to take a chance on him.
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Postby Lakerjones on Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:02 pm

wallangong wrote:
dvdrdiscs wrote:
wallangong wrote:
dvdrdiscs wrote:
Vincey wrote:How are you guys so certain he can't play the 3? You guys crack me up.

None of us know how the chemistry will change, how the ball will move, and how the general offense flows with Andrew coming back.

Sure I am open to moving Odom, but I really don't understand how anyone is definitively saying Odom has no chance to play the 3. And there's no logic in saying "since he couldn't play the 4, he won't be able to play the 3." What the Hell?



You speak of logic yet you exhibit none. At the 4, Lamar can't hit the midrange. Think he can do it at the 3? How about that 3PT FG% of his eh? He'll be getting wide open 3's all day playing SF. Think he can hit it consistently and make his defender pay?

Ever seen Lamar drive to the basket? Ever seen his slashing game? Non existent right? How about this, ever seen him commit charges while driving to the hoop?

Think Lamar can defend other SF? Yeah Lamar is long but he's not fast enough.

Hence, I've used logic to show you why Lamar at SF won't work. Besides, did you not see Lamar playing SF in the beginning of the season? Don't even use injury as an excuse. The guy was LOST.

Thank you. Come again!


this post reminds why i take opinion's on CL with even less than a grain of salt.

1) been beaten to death, but the last 2 years, Lamar was not asked to be a 3pt shooter. he's been playing PF. it's convenient to ignore that 3 years ago he attempted over 200 threes and made 37%. Prior to that year, he shot in the 30% range every year but 1. Not lights out, but not as bad as you'd like us to think.

2) to go along with point 1, the last 2 years he didn't get to work on his game in the offseason. not because he chose not to, he COULDN'T.

3) Never drive to the basket? never slash? did you even watch the Lakers this year? especially in the 2nd half of the season.

4) returning from an injury can't be used an excuse as to why he looked like he was playing in preseason early this year? i think anyone who's played basketball long enough will tell you, if you miss a few months, you're going to feel lost out there for a while, especially when changing positions AGAIN.

nothing in your rant showed the prior poster wasn't using logic. but go ahead and attack people's intelligence to further your point.

Thank YOU. Come again!



Excuses, excuses. That is the game you guys play ever since Lamar came into this team.

1) Lamar was never asked to have a 3 PT game? Are you serious? Did we not experiment him playing at the SF even before the beginning of this season? My recollection said we did and he failed miserably. Remember that stretch where Lamar lost weight to play SF and Phil eventually said f-- it and had him put back on the weight to play PF?

So you used a sample size of one year @ 37% as an indication that he can do it? In this world we follow the law of probability and the larger sample size indicates he cannot shoot a high 3PT FG%. And if you think in the 30's is a good percentage to be regarded as a threat, think again.


2) Every single year, there is an excuse for why Lamar can't do this or that during the summer. 8-9 years in the league and he has not improved any area of his game. He is the same player since his first season without any significant improvement in his game. Why is that so hard to see?

3) With Lamar's driving game, I actually wish he never drove to the basket. But he does and I never said he didn't. People credit him with being able to take his defender off the dribble but oh please. Lamar has all the physical advantage in the world and he rarely uses it to exploit his defender. He has attempted and CANNOT slash or take anyone off the dribble. His lateral movement with the ball is very limited. Not to mention he prefers his dominant hand way too much. Besides Derek Fisher, how many other guy on this team commits a charge as much as Lamar?

4) Refer to #2.


<in best Apu impersonation> Thank you. Come again!



1) 8-10 games is hardly experimentation. and again, i never said 30% range is good for a 3pt shooter. but if you look around the league, players in the mid-30's get respect and usually have the green light to shoot. i was making the point that he's not as incompetent from 3 as you suggest.

2) actually, there's only 2 years where there has been an excuse for him not working on him game in the summer. when Lamar came to LA to play for Rudy in the run 'n gun offense, he worked on his 3 point shot and shot 37% that year. coincidence? doubtful.

3) you say his slashing game is non-existent. all it takes is to watch a few games to see a lot of points this year came off of slashing, but it's cool disregard that too.

this is not an "excuses" game. i've said in several threads i'm open to trading Odom. what i'm not open to is this constant use of him as the scapegoat saying "he can't do this, he can't do that, etc." if someone had never watched basketball before and browsed this site, you would think Lamar was the worst player on the team.

:bang: :bang: :bang:



Re: the experiments already with LO at the 3. A few years ago they began the year with LO at the 3 and Krummy and Mihm at 4 and 5. They tried to make LO the Pippen for Kobe's MJ. It lasted a good part of the year until Mihm went down and the staff figured out that LO was much better at 4 and the other two couldn't play on the court at the same time.

Basically LO failed MISERABLY. Everyone came down on him, Tex (there are plenty of quotes by him regarding this, dig 'em up if you feel like it), Phil, everyone. It was a DISASTER. And, not surprisingly at least to me, this year at the beginning of the season when they tried it again they had POOR results. This is why we are already seeing so much trade talk. We've already seen LO at the 3 and he is subpar there. His 3 point shooting for the most part is horrible. And he loves to camp out there at the line. It does nothing for our offense.

Couple that with the fact that he struggled on Defense against most SF's in the league and you know why most people think it won't work out. Personally I think the only way LO can really stay here is if we get Artest on opt out. Then we keep LO for chemistry and for versatility and simply for the fact that it works monetarily at least for next year.

But if Artest does not come and one of these guys is available via trade, RJ or Marion, then we need to do it.
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Postby BadScooter on Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:03 pm

That trade is unlikely, but I wouldn't go as far as calling Harris their franchise player.


He isn't; he's LeBron James' future PG.
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Postby Kobe Bryant 8 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:08 pm

I'd want something else from NJ, like the 10th pick, or maybe Marcus Williams now that they have Harris.

10th pick would be clutch. Package that with Vlad and go for a tough veteran. Something like Vlad and 10 for Haslem and a 2nd would work for me. Save cash, get a need.
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Postby wallangong on Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:08 pm

^^ LO played the SF under Rudy and at the beginning of this year. the year under Rudy had nothing to do with LO, we just weren't very good, Kobe was injured, LO finished the year injured. But the failure that year was not LO at the 3, it was the team missing the playoffs.

like i already said, Odom didn't play more than 10 games at SF this year. THAT is a much smaller sample size than the year under Rudy (over 200 3pt attempts while shooting 37%).

again, while not great, anyone shooting over 30% from 3 is not considered "horrible." his defensive struggles at the SF position also took place when we were one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA.

all i'm saying is i'm tired of people saying he CAN'T do this or he's "terrible" at that. the guy has had a 3 pt shot in the past, and the defensive issues might not exist when you have Twin Towers inside. for the right deal i'd trade LO, but i really can't fathom the short-term memory people have on this board.
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Postby lakersforthewin on Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:09 pm

I'd rather have Ron sign here for the MLE and move LO to the bench where he can be effective as the bench is usually plays uptempo basketball where Lamar thrives.
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Postby knm131 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:13 pm

dvdrdiscs wrote:Besides Derek Fisher, how many other guy on this team commits a charge as much as Lamar?


Kobe Bryant leads the team in offensive fouls.

Odom is second.

Derek Fisher is third.

Thank you come again.
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