NJ Paper: RJ to Lakers a real possibility

Postby JSM on Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:16 pm

LetHimRoll wrote:Just to entertain the idea. How about LO + Luke and Ariza for RJ + Harris.

Our line up would be

PG- Harris, Fisher, Farmar
SG- Bryant, Sasha
SF- RJ, Vlad
PF- Gasol, Turiaf
C- Bynum, Mihm

They traded Kidd for Harris, why would they give us Harris for Luke and Ariza?
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Postby GinoDB on Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:22 pm

z32 wrote:One thing I don't like about the RJ deal is I have a feeling they might ask for Trevor with LO if it happens. I mean, they will be losing their star SF, so I think they might be looking at Trevor as his young, up and coming replacement.


id do it if we get a pick
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Postby dvdrdiscs on Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:23 pm

wallangong wrote:^^ LO played the SF under Rudy and at the beginning of this year. the year under Rudy had nothing to do with LO, we just weren't very good, Kobe was injured, LO finished the year injured. But the failure that year was not LO at the 3, it was the team missing the playoffs.

like i already said, Odom didn't play more than 10 games at SF this year. THAT is a much smaller sample size than the year under Rudy (over 200 3pt attempts while shooting 37%).

again, while not great, anyone shooting over 30% from 3 is not considered "horrible." his defensive struggles at the SF position also took place when we were one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA.

all i'm saying is i'm tired of people saying he CAN'T do this or he's "terrible" at that. the guy has had a 3 pt shot in the past, and the defensive issues might not exist when you have Twin Towers inside. for the right deal i'd trade LO, but i really can't fathom the short-term memory people have on this board.



So Lamar played like crap at the 3 during the Rudy year because the team played like crap? I think you got it reverse. Sure it wasn't only Lamar's fault but his poor play at the 3 didn't help our team play any better that year.

You keep on harping about the year he shot 37% as an indication that he can shoot the 3. And I will keep bringing up the rest of his career as a reason why he will never be good at the 3. With Gasol playing high post and Bynum playing low post, you need someone that commands respect at the 3. Now we can agree to disagree whether 30-ish percentage is good, but he does not carry that reputation as a threat at the 3 point line. Want to see what a big difference it is to have someone that can spread the floor and command defensive respect? Look at how big of a difference it is when we disrespect Rondo in the Boston series as compared to having House in the lineup.

I have nothing against Lamar. I sincerely hope we can keep him @ a cheaper rate. What I don't understand is why people say we should wait and see. There is really nothing to wait and see on because we know what Lamar can offer playing SF. He's just really a victim of circumstances and pecking order. Bynum needs to start at center. Gasol is too good to not start. Lamar is just the most expendable guy in regards to us having a better player playing his best position (PF).

But knowing how conservative Mitch is, more than likely we'll start the season with Lamar still on the roster.
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Postby kray28 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:24 pm

knm131 wrote:
dvdrdiscs wrote:Besides Derek Fisher, how many other guy on this team commits a charge as much as Lamar?


Kobe Bryant leads the team in offensive fouls.

Odom is second.

Derek Fisher is third.

Thank you come again.


It's easy to recite stats, but what's the point if they aren't applied or interpreted correctly?

Numbers are skewed when the fact that no one of the team attacks the basket more than Kobe, is taken into account.

He might lead the team in absolute number of charges committed, but he also leads the team in attacks of the basket (and successful conversions and points as well).

It's kind of like turnovers....the more you handle the ball, the greater the chances are that you will commit a turnover. Hence it's not surprising that Kobe also leads the team in turnovers.

Lamar commits charges at a higher rate than anyone of the team.
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Postby LetHimRoll on Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:26 pm

JSM wrote:
LetHimRoll wrote:Just to entertain the idea. How about LO + Luke and Ariza for RJ + Harris.

Our line up would be

PG- Harris, Fisher, Farmar
SG- Bryant, Sasha
SF- RJ, Vlad
PF- Gasol, Turiaf
C- Bynum, Mihm

They traded Kidd for Harris, why would they give us Harris for Luke and Ariza?


If they are desperate to get out of RJ's contract. They have an up and coming PG they were very high on prior to the KIdd trade (Marcus Williams). They wanted a big for Kidd but Harris was the only thing they could get. I know it's unrealistic but it's worth a try. Right?
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Postby GinoDB on Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:27 pm

if we get Jefferson and still have Luke

we can get Arenas to join them :mhihi:
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Postby z32 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:46 pm

Mando323 wrote:
LetHimRoll wrote:
z32 wrote:One thing I don't like about the RJ deal is I have a feeling they might ask for Trevor with LO if it happens. I mean, they will be losing their star SF, so I think they might be looking at Trevor as his young, up and coming replacement.


RJ eliminates the need for Ariza. Besides we don't have room for four small forwards.


I don't wanna lose Arizaaaa. can they take vlad or luke?


Frankly, I'm not sure if they would take Vlad or Luke. One reason they would do this deal is to free up salary space so they can rebuild properly, so taking on either Vlad's or Luke's contract would contradict that. Ariza, on the other hand, is young, cheap, doesn't have a long term contract, and has a lot of upside. I seriously think they will ask for Ariza if they do this deal.
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Postby FabFourLakers on Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:52 pm

I'm down for RJ...he can create his own shot, he can penetrate, he can create for others, he can hit the 3 pt shot and help spread the floor for Kobe Pau and Bynum....he is ATHLETIC and plays better D than Odom...and he's younger than odom too...he also has Finals experience....i like itd
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Postby MadMax on Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:52 pm

Huh? I don't even remember this being a rumor from last summer. Kinda a random trade, not quite sure how I feel about it. I do feel Odumb needs to go, and we need to work on our SF problem big time.

And please, anyone who thinks we can pull off a deal that would get us Harris too, is just darn crazy. They traded Jason Kidd for him, and got the better end of the deal from it.
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Postby wallangong on Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:54 pm

dvdrdiscs wrote:
wallangong wrote:^^ LO played the SF under Rudy and at the beginning of this year. the year under Rudy had nothing to do with LO, we just weren't very good, Kobe was injured, LO finished the year injured. But the failure that year was not LO at the 3, it was the team missing the playoffs.

like i already said, Odom didn't play more than 10 games at SF this year. THAT is a much smaller sample size than the year under Rudy (over 200 3pt attempts while shooting 37%).

again, while not great, anyone shooting over 30% from 3 is not considered "horrible." his defensive struggles at the SF position also took place when we were one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA.

all i'm saying is i'm tired of people saying he CAN'T do this or he's "terrible" at that. the guy has had a 3 pt shot in the past, and the defensive issues might not exist when you have Twin Towers inside. for the right deal i'd trade LO, but i really can't fathom the short-term memory people have on this board.



So Lamar played like crap at the 3 during the Rudy year because the team played like crap? I think you got it reverse. Sure it wasn't only Lamar's fault but his poor play at the 3 didn't help our team play any better that year.

You keep on harping about the year he shot 37% as an indication that he can shoot the 3. And I will keep bringing up the rest of his career as a reason why he will never be good at the 3. With Gasol playing high post and Bynum playing low post, you need someone that commands respect at the 3. Now we can agree to disagree whether 30-ish percentage is good, but he does not carry that reputation as a threat at the 3 point line. Want to see what a big difference it is to have someone that can spread the floor and command defensive respect? Look at how big of a difference it is when we disrespect Rondo in the Boston series as compared to having House in the lineup.

I have nothing against Lamar. I sincerely hope we can keep him @ a cheaper rate. What I don't understand is why people say we should wait and see. There is really nothing to wait and see on because we know what Lamar can offer playing SF. He's just really a victim of circumstances and pecking order. Bynum needs to start at center. Gasol is too good to not start. Lamar is just the most expendable guy in regards to us having a better player playing his best position (PF).

But knowing how conservative Mitch is, more than likely we'll start the season with Lamar still on the roster.


i use the year he shot 37% as a frame of reference. prior to that year, he had only one year below 30% (29).

the year with Lamar at the 3? didn't go down the drain UNTIL lamar got hurt. we were in the playoffs until he went down, so obviously couldn't have been playing that bad.

if we trade Lo for RJ, awesome. i hope it would work out. but why do people want to harp on the things Lamar doesn't do (whether they're accurate in their assessment or not)? while RJ is better in some respects, LO is not as bad as a lot of people here like to think.

i'd like a SF that could spread the offense, i just am with the minority who don't think it's impossible for LO to be a good enough shooter to spread the offense. i don't make any guarantees that he comes back with an improved 3, but i do believe it's feasible if he's as serious about winning as he has sounded since we lost.
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Postby Lakerjones on Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:56 pm

dvdrdiscs wrote:
wallangong wrote:^^ LO played the SF under Rudy and at the beginning of this year. the year under Rudy had nothing to do with LO, we just weren't very good, Kobe was injured, LO finished the year injured. But the failure that year was not LO at the 3, it was the team missing the playoffs.

like i already said, Odom didn't play more than 10 games at SF this year. THAT is a much smaller sample size than the year under Rudy (over 200 3pt attempts while shooting 37%).

again, while not great, anyone shooting over 30% from 3 is not considered "horrible." his defensive struggles at the SF position also took place when we were one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA.

all i'm saying is i'm tired of people saying he CAN'T do this or he's "terrible" at that. the guy has had a 3 pt shot in the past, and the defensive issues might not exist when you have Twin Towers inside. for the right deal i'd trade LO, but i really can't fathom the short-term memory people have on this board.



So Lamar played like crap at the 3 during the Rudy year because the team played like crap? I think you got it reverse. Sure it wasn't only Lamar's fault but his poor play at the 3 didn't help our team play any better that year.

You keep on harping about the year he shot 37% as an indication that he can shoot the 3. And I will keep bringing up the rest of his career as a reason why he will never be good at the 3. With Gasol playing high post and Bynum playing low post, you need someone that commands respect at the 3. Now we can agree to disagree whether 30-ish percentage is good, but he does not carry that reputation as a threat at the 3 point line. Want to see what a big difference it is to have someone that can spread the floor and command defensive respect? Look at how big of a difference it is when we disrespect Rondo in the Boston series as compared to having House in the lineup.

I have nothing against Lamar. I sincerely hope we can keep him @ a cheaper rate. What I don't understand is why people say we should wait and see. There is really nothing to wait and see on because we know what Lamar can offer playing SF. He's just really a victim of circumstances and pecking order. Bynum needs to start at center. Gasol is too good to not start. Lamar is just the most expendable guy in regards to us having a better player playing his best position (PF).

But knowing how conservative Mitch is, more than likely we'll start the season with Lamar still on the roster.



People are mistaking their history. LO NEVER played the 3 under Rudy T. He played 4 and had great numbers. Caron played 3.

LO was moved to 3 under Phil and Tex when they returned the next year. The idea was to take advantage of LO's ballhandling skills and size and turn him into Scottie Pippen. If you RECALL, he FAILED and quite MISERABLY at that. It wasn't a short stint either BTW. He played at least half the year at the position and he STUNK. Personally I hate LO at the 3. When they returned with the idea at the beginning of this year I launched into tirade because I KNEW IT WOULD NOT WORK. Guess what? It didn't. Once LO went back to 4 we began to get on our roll.

Will it work this third time around? I'm guessing not. Why? Because it never has before? Miami utilized LO as a 4 and got the best out of him. Here he has always sucked as a 3 and works tremendously well at 4.

I think the Lakers will be conservative and probably try him out there. But I think most of us believe he will be ditched for a real 2 way SF.
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Postby wallangong on Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:59 pm

Miami actually utilized him as the PG. obviously not on defense, but he initiated the offense at least half the time.

youre right about him running the SF the first year under Phil, i forgot about that. but how much of that was really LO and not the combo of Kwame/Mihm up front? really, i'm not saying LO wasn't a problem i just didn't get to see much of the team that year as i was living in the dorms?
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Postby dvdrdiscs on Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:18 pm

wallangong wrote:
dvdrdiscs wrote:
wallangong wrote:^^ LO played the SF under Rudy and at the beginning of this year. the year under Rudy had nothing to do with LO, we just weren't very good, Kobe was injured, LO finished the year injured. But the failure that year was not LO at the 3, it was the team missing the playoffs.

like i already said, Odom didn't play more than 10 games at SF this year. THAT is a much smaller sample size than the year under Rudy (over 200 3pt attempts while shooting 37%).

again, while not great, anyone shooting over 30% from 3 is not considered "horrible." his defensive struggles at the SF position also took place when we were one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA.

all i'm saying is i'm tired of people saying he CAN'T do this or he's "terrible" at that. the guy has had a 3 pt shot in the past, and the defensive issues might not exist when you have Twin Towers inside. for the right deal i'd trade LO, but i really can't fathom the short-term memory people have on this board.



So Lamar played like crap at the 3 during the Rudy year because the team played like crap? I think you got it reverse. Sure it wasn't only Lamar's fault but his poor play at the 3 didn't help our team play any better that year.

You keep on harping about the year he shot 37% as an indication that he can shoot the 3. And I will keep bringing up the rest of his career as a reason why he will never be good at the 3. With Gasol playing high post and Bynum playing low post, you need someone that commands respect at the 3. Now we can agree to disagree whether 30-ish percentage is good, but he does not carry that reputation as a threat at the 3 point line. Want to see what a big difference it is to have someone that can spread the floor and command defensive respect? Look at how big of a difference it is when we disrespect Rondo in the Boston series as compared to having House in the lineup.

I have nothing against Lamar. I sincerely hope we can keep him @ a cheaper rate. What I don't understand is why people say we should wait and see. There is really nothing to wait and see on because we know what Lamar can offer playing SF. He's just really a victim of circumstances and pecking order. Bynum needs to start at center. Gasol is too good to not start. Lamar is just the most expendable guy in regards to us having a better player playing his best position (PF).

But knowing how conservative Mitch is, more than likely we'll start the season with Lamar still on the roster.


i use the year he shot 37% as a frame of reference. prior to that year, he had only one year below 30% (29).

the year with Lamar at the 3? didn't go down the drain UNTIL lamar got hurt. we were in the playoffs until he went down, so obviously couldn't have been playing that bad.

if we trade Lo for RJ, awesome. i hope it would work out. but why do people want to harp on the things Lamar doesn't do (whether they're accurate in their assessment or not)? while RJ is better in some respects, LO is not as bad as a lot of people here like to think.

i'd like a SF that could spread the offense, i just am with the minority who don't think it's impossible for LO to be a good enough shooter to spread the offense. i don't make any guarantees that he comes back with an improved 3, but i do believe it's feasible if he's as serious about winning as he has sounded since we lost.




Lamar won't magically become a better shooter. Here's the last 6 years from his Clipper days, to Miami, to Lakers. 1st column is eFG% on his midrange shots and 2nd column is his 3PT FG%. The Lamar experiment at SF was tried and failed for a reason.


YEAR
02-03 - 37% 32.6%
03-04 - 39% 29.8%
04-05 - 40% 30.8%
05-06 - 41.6% 37.2%
06-07 - 39.6% 29.7%
07-08 - 40% 27.4%



He's a career 31% shooter at the 3 point line. That will NOT get it done.
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Postby Showboat on Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:09 pm

Why don't we go for Vince Carter?? Both, Jefferson and Carter play at a similar level.. but Carter shoots better from outside.. An by the way he and Trevor could give us even more Highlightdunks than we saw this year :-D :jam2:
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Postby Lakerman JSJ on Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:10 pm

Showboat wrote:Why don't we go for Vince Carter?? Both, Jefferson and Carter play at a similar level.. but Carter shoots better from outside.. An by the way he and Trevor could give us even more Highlightdunks than we saw this year :-D :jam2:


Besides Vince being a gutless turd, we already have a pretty solid 2-guard. Perhaps you've heard of him? His name is escaping me at the moment.
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Postby gill on Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:11 pm

Showboat wrote:Why don't we go for Vince Carter?? Both, Jefferson and Carter play at a similar level.. but Carter shoots better from outside.. An by the way he and Trevor could give us even more Highlightdunks than we saw this year :-D :jam2:


VC? If people here are complaining that Odom lacks any heart or concentration sometimes, wait til you guys get a load of VC. :man10:

I've watched the guy rise to fame and fall from grace as a Raptor. Keep his LO-esque attitude away from a championship organization like the Lakers.
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Postby chingy248 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:11 pm

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Postby gill on Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:12 pm

chingy248 wrote:Image
:jam2:


So Kobe's gonna rock #8 again? :man1:
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Postby knm131 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:18 pm

kray28 wrote:
knm131 wrote:
dvdrdiscs wrote:Besides Derek Fisher, how many other guy on this team commits a charge as much as Lamar?


Kobe Bryant leads the team in offensive fouls.

Odom is second.

Derek Fisher is third.

Thank you come again.


It's easy to recite stats, but what's the point if they aren't applied or interpreted correctly?

Numbers are skewed when the fact that no one of the team attacks the basket more than Kobe, is taken into account.

He might lead the team in absolute number of charges committed, but he also leads the team in attacks of the basket (and successful conversions and points as well).

It's kind of like turnovers....the more you handle the ball, the greater the chances are that you will commit a turnover. Hence it's not surprising that Kobe also leads the team in turnovers.

Lamar commits charges at a higher rate than anyone of the team.


He didn't ask for rate.

He asked for many guys on the Laker squad commit more than Lamar Odom?

I'm not sure about the rate, as I cannot find any stats out there on time ball spent in hands or, "touches" or anything like that. The closest thing I can see is minutes played.

Odom committed 23 offensive fouls in 2921 minutes (37.9 mins) played this season.
That's 0.0079 offensive fouls per minute played.

Kobe committed 29 offensive fouls in 3192 minutes (38.9 mins) played this season.
That's 0.0091 offensive fouls per minute played.

Unless the rate is just because YOU say so, it looks like Kobe does commit offensive fouls at a greater rate than Odom does as well.
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Postby lakefansac on Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:20 pm

Anybody know from watching Richard Jefferson this year how his 3 point and mid range shot is?

How's his defense?

I always though of RJ as a slasher with average defense.

I'd rather have Artest even though he may be a nutcase.
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Postby BLAZINLAKERFAN on Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:23 pm

Showboat wrote:Why don't we go for Vince Carter?? Both, Jefferson and Carter play at a similar level.. but Carter shoots better from outside.. An by the way he and Trevor could give us even more Highlightdunks than we saw this year :-D :jam2:


Highlight Dunks? Is that all you care about? :man10: :man10: :man10:
I would take RJ in heartbeat he fits the bill more of a SF and more of what we need. Carter these days is playing without passion anymore. Plus Carter doesnt play any D at all and is just lazy.

And how is he not the right fit for us?

He's a legit SF who can shoot from the outside,slash to the basket, play defense (pretty good defender)and is more consistent than LO.

I would like to know why you think he's not the right fit? And don't say it's because you dont like him.
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Postby Showboat on Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:24 pm

Besides Vince being a gutless turd, we already have a pretty solid 2-guard. Perhaps you've heard of him? His name is escaping me at the moment.


Sorry, but Carter can also play Small Forward.. Actually this was his position at the start of his NBA career...
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Postby gill on Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:28 pm

Showboat wrote:Besides Vince being a gutless turd, we already have a pretty solid 2-guard. Perhaps you've heard of him? His name is escaping me at the moment.


Sorry, but Carter can also play Small Forward.. Actually this was his position at the start of his NBA career...


I am telling you dude, the guy doesn't care at all if he wins or lose. He's just here to earn his cheque. Even Phil had the same sentiment when they play against him. Why do you think he's villified so much in Toronto?

If you think LO doesn't care sometimes, Vince is a hell of a lot worse.
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Postby Lotc on Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:28 pm

Hell no to RJ....gotta be in the top 5 of overrated players.
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Postby chug o nomics on Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:33 pm

Lotc wrote:Hell no to RJ....gotta be in the top 5 of overrated players.


17.4/5.4/3.0 on 47.5% shooting with only 2.2 turnovers per ~36 minutes is pretty damn impressive if you ask me. Besides, if RJ is on that list, Lamar tops it.
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