NJ Paper: RJ to Lakers a real possibility

Postby chug o nomics on Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:33 pm

Lotc wrote:Hell no to RJ....gotta be in the top 5 of overrated players.


17.4/5.4/3.0 on 47.5% shooting with only 2.2 turnovers per ~36 minutes is pretty damn impressive if you ask me. Besides, if RJ is on that list, Lamar tops it.
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Postby Weezy on Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:35 pm

Lotc wrote:Hell no to RJ....gotta be in the top 5 of overrated players.


Lamar must be on that list as well then. Besides, we don't need a star at the 3, just an athletic and strong guy who can defend and score, that's RJ.
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Postby chug o nomics on Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:38 pm

*highfives Weezy*
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Postby John3:16 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:48 pm

chug o nomics wrote:*highfives Weezy*
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Postby westcoast21 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:51 pm

I say:

Lamar Odom

for

Richard Jefferson
Sean Williams

:stunoice:
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Postby dvdrdiscs on Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:53 pm

knm131 wrote:
kray28 wrote:
knm131 wrote:
dvdrdiscs wrote:Besides Derek Fisher, how many other guy on this team commits a charge as much as Lamar?


Kobe Bryant leads the team in offensive fouls.

Odom is second.

Derek Fisher is third.

Thank you come again.


It's easy to recite stats, but what's the point if they aren't applied or interpreted correctly?

Numbers are skewed when the fact that no one of the team attacks the basket more than Kobe, is taken into account.

He might lead the team in absolute number of charges committed, but he also leads the team in attacks of the basket (and successful conversions and points as well).

It's kind of like turnovers....the more you handle the ball, the greater the chances are that you will commit a turnover. Hence it's not surprising that Kobe also leads the team in turnovers.

Lamar commits charges at a higher rate than anyone of the team.


He didn't ask for rate.

He asked for many guys on the Laker squad commit more than Lamar Odom?

I'm not sure about the rate, as I cannot find any stats out there on time ball spent in hands or, "touches" or anything like that. The closest thing I can see is minutes played.

Odom committed 23 offensive fouls in 2921 minutes (37.9 mins) played this season.
That's 0.0079 offensive fouls per minute played.

Kobe committed 29 offensive fouls in 3192 minutes (38.9 mins) played this season.
That's 0.0091 offensive fouls per minute played.

Unless the rate is just because YOU say so, it looks like Kobe does commit offensive fouls at a greater rate than Odom does as well.



Rate of charges per drive to the basket not minutes?
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Postby HisAirness24 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:00 pm

westcoast21 wrote:I say:

Lamar Odom

for

Richard Jefferson
Sean Williams

:stunoice:


Sean Williams is going to be a beast in this league, not much of an offense, but the dude's a freak, I can already tell.

I do that deal all day.
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Postby westcoast21 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:02 pm

HisAirness24 wrote:
westcoast21 wrote:I say:

Lamar Odom

for

Richard Jefferson
Sean Williams

:stunoice:


Sean Williams is going to be a beast in this league, not much of an offense, but the dude's a freak, I can already tell.

I do that deal all day.


We first sign Artest,Then in the fourth quarter in close games we put this lineup on the floor:

Bynum
Williams
Artest
Bryant
Insert PG (We can put Smush on the floor again and it wouldnt matter) :man10:
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Postby Vincey on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:03 pm

I am a Sean Williams fan, but I doubt the Nets part with any of their youngins. Boone, Williams, and Williams probably won't be included.
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Postby westcoast21 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:04 pm

Vincey wrote:I am a Sean Williams fan, but I doubt the Nets part with any of their youngins. Boone, Williams, and Williams probably won't be included.


No why do you gotta go and ruin everything. :man6: :mad1:
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Postby mapabu1 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:09 pm

Maybe the lakers can get Diop in a sign and trade along with RJ
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Postby jbs07 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:13 pm

I would love to see Richard Jefferson in a Lakers uniform. Great player.
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Postby knm131 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:23 pm

dvdrdiscs wrote:
knm131 wrote:
kray28 wrote:
knm131 wrote:
dvdrdiscs wrote:Besides Derek Fisher, how many other guy on this team commits a charge as much as Lamar?


Kobe Bryant leads the team in offensive fouls.

Odom is second.

Derek Fisher is third.

Thank you come again.


It's easy to recite stats, but what's the point if they aren't applied or interpreted correctly?

Numbers are skewed when the fact that no one of the team attacks the basket more than Kobe, is taken into account.

He might lead the team in absolute number of charges committed, but he also leads the team in attacks of the basket (and successful conversions and points as well).

It's kind of like turnovers....the more you handle the ball, the greater the chances are that you will commit a turnover. Hence it's not surprising that Kobe also leads the team in turnovers.

Lamar commits charges at a higher rate than anyone of the team.


He didn't ask for rate.

He asked for many guys on the Laker squad commit more than Lamar Odom?

I'm not sure about the rate, as I cannot find any stats out there on time ball spent in hands or, "touches" or anything like that. The closest thing I can see is minutes played.

Odom committed 23 offensive fouls in 2921 minutes (37.9 mins) played this season.
That's 0.0079 offensive fouls per minute played.

Kobe committed 29 offensive fouls in 3192 minutes (38.9 mins) played this season.
That's 0.0091 offensive fouls per minute played.

Unless the rate is just because YOU say so, it looks like Kobe does commit offensive fouls at a greater rate than Odom does as well.



Rate of charges per drive to the basket not minutes?


Ok, where would you pull the stat "drives to the basket"? I have no idea how to pull that data. The only reliable piece of data we have easy access to is minutes, or games played. Otherwise, it's just a big old guessing game.

One way we COULD do it, is look at Field Goal types attempted. Looking at "Close" and "Dunk" type shots, we could infer in order to take a close shot or dunk, you have to drive to the basket (a safe assumption).

25% of Kobe's shots are considered either "Close" or "Dunks" (per 82games.com).
Kobe took 1,690 field goals in 2007-2008 regular season
Therefore, 422.5 "close" or "Dunk" type field goals.

For Odom, he takes 53% of his shots as "Close" or "Dunks".
Odom took 795 field goals in 2007-2008 regular season.
Therefore, 421.4 "close" or "dunk" type field goals.

If "close" or "dunk" type field goal attempts represent anything close to "drives to the basket", then we can surmise that on 422.5 close/dunk field goal attempts, Kobe committed 29 offensive fouls and Odom 23 offensive fouls on 421.4 close/dunk field goal attempts.

Offensive fouls PER close/dunk field goal attempt?
Kobe: 0.069 (or 6.9%)
Odom: 0.055 (or 5.5%)

Kobe takes a LOT of shots, but 75% of them are jump shots. Lamar takes fewer shots, but the majority of his are VERY close to the basket (where charges typically occur). That's why MOST offensive foul calls are committed by big men (see the 82games.com list).

Either way you slice it, Kobe commits more offensive fouls, whether absolute or adjusted per drive to the basket, than Odom.
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Postby Jajwa on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:24 pm

Or maybe you guys will eventually realize that Jefferson, contract and all is worth more than Odom.

It may even take Ariza+Odom to get Jefferson but hell I don't really care....

I can't believe you guys are turning down Richard Jefferson for Lamar Odom. It should be a 95% in favor deal. Odom is nothing compared to him, 0-zilch when it comes to playing well at the SF spot. Odom played PF in 2004, did well, played SF in 2005 sucked and then did well at PF, 2006 started great at PF, 2007 started horribly at SF and did well at PF. Plain and simple he can't shoot. RJ's 3 point percentage will go into the 42% range based on how many open looks the triangle SF gets.

RJ is no Paul Pierce to be sure, but he has no weakness, none whatsoever that are so blindingly apparent. He has no lack of a jump shot, he's not soft, he's not a guy who can't slash, he can handle the ball fairly well now, he can pass well, he's smart, can play in a slow down, or high speed offense. He can do pretty much everything. He has no ideal trait about him other than maybe a powerful slashing move to dunk but he's very good in every aspect of the game. If you turn him down because of money reasons, etc... I am going to laugh.

Ariza+Mihm+Odom heck I don't care really...

You get Jefferson and you've got THE TEAM perfect, balanced, with no liabilities anywhere other than maybe PG defense.
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Postby knm131 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:27 pm

Jajwa wrote:Or maybe you guys will eventually realize that Jefferson, contract and all is worth more than Odom.

It may even take Ariza+Odom to get Jefferson but hell I don't really care....

I can't believe you guys are turning down Richard Jefferson for Lamar Odom. It should be a 95% in favor deal. Odom is nothing compared to him, 0-zilch when it comes to playing well at the SF spot. Odom played PF in 2004, did well, played SF in 2005 sucked and then did well at PF, 2006 started great at PF, 2007 started horribly at SF and did well at PF. Plain and simple he can't shoot. RJ's 3 point percentage will go into the 42% range based on how many open looks the triangle SF gets.

RJ is no Paul Pierce to be sure, but he has no weakness, none whatsoever that are so blindingly apparent. He has no lack of a jump shot, he's not soft, he's not a guy who can't slash, he can handle the ball fairly well now, he can pass well, he's smart, can play in a slow down, or high speed offense. He can do pretty much everything. He has no ideal trait about him other than maybe a powerful slashing move to dunk but he's very good in every aspect of the game. If you turn him down because of money reasons, etc... I am going to laugh.

Ariza+Mihm+Odom heck I don't care really...

You get Jefferson and you've got THE TEAM perfect, balanced, with no liabilities anywhere other than maybe PG defense.


Do you want to lose Bynum?

Because that's the only way they are going to be able to afford Richard Jefferson.

Kobe, Pau and RJ alone would put the Lakers over the cap. That means no extension for Bynum and that of course, means no Bynum.
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Postby Jajwa on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:32 pm

Who the hell cares if it puts them over the cap? It doesn't mean we lose Bynum because Buss is raking in the cash from a NBA finals win. I have no idea where you get the idea that we'll lose Bynum.

Jefferson's contract isn't nuclear, relax. It's 13-14m over the next three years, big deal.

Buss already is willing to pay 90m maximum not including luxury tax.

If you trade Odom for Jefferson you actually save Buss two million this year. Also it gives you insurance in case Vujajic decides to leave. If Vujajic does leave RJ becomes the backup SG and you can put Ariza on the floor at the SF spot or Radmanovic worst comes to worst.

With Vujajic and Turiaf re-signed we'll be at 83m. After the Jefferson deal it would be 82m or so. Bynum will get his extension planned for next year. We'll call next year the super expensive year. After that year Fisher is gone and we'll probably draft a young PG with Farmar almost ready for an extension. Radmanovic will be in his last year, etcc etc etc..

Point is Buss has said he will spend the cash to win it all.
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Postby knm131 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:38 pm

Jajwa wrote:Who the hell cares if it puts them over the cap? It doesn't mean we lose Bynum because Buss is raking in the cash from a NBA finals win. I have no idea where you get the idea that we'll lose Bynum.

Jefferson's contract isn't nuclear, relax. It's 13-14m over the next three years, big deal.

Buss already is willing to pay 90m maximum not including luxury tax.

If you trade Odom for Jefferson you actually save Buss two million this year. Also it gives you insurance in case Vujajic decides to leave. If Vujajic does leave RJ becomes the backup SG and you can put Ariza on the floor at the SF spot or Radmanovic worst comes to worst.

With Vujajic and Turiaf re-signed we'll be at 83m. After the Jefferson deal it would be 82m or so. Bynum will get his extension planned for next year. We'll call next year the super expensive year. After that year Fisher is gone and we'll probably draft a young PG with Farmar almost ready for an extension. Radmanovic will be in his last year, etcc etc etc..

Point is Buss has said he will spend the cash to win it all.


He spend he'll spend the cash yes. But he didn't mean ANY amount of cash.

This so lame, why not go make up a team of $15 million players and say "Buss said he's spend the cash to win".

Buss didn't have to spend the cash to ALMOST win ... and we're already a contender next season. Why does he have to spend $50 million to go from game 6 of NBA finals to winner? I don't think he does.

If you don't look at the money aspect, RJ makes sense. When you look at the money aspect it doesn't make sense.

You don't care about the money, because it's not your money.
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Postby Radner on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:38 pm

Chad Ford mention that the Nets are looking to clear cap space for 2010. The only problem is that he mention Portland who also have a huge expiring in Raef LaFrentz.

They have a better offer than us.

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/vid ... Id=2459788
Last edited by Radner on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Original 81 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:39 pm

"Let me say one more thing about Kobe. He will be the best player in the history of the game. If he keeps doing what he's doing, there is no stopping him. He is that good." - Shaquille O'Neal in his autobiography, "Shaq Talks Back"
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Postby Jajwa on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:40 pm

knm131 wrote:
Jajwa wrote:Who the hell cares if it puts them over the cap? It doesn't mean we lose Bynum because Buss is raking in the cash from a NBA finals win. I have no idea where you get the idea that we'll lose Bynum.

Jefferson's contract isn't nuclear, relax. It's 13-14m over the next three years, big deal.

Buss already is willing to pay 90m maximum not including luxury tax.

If you trade Odom for Jefferson you actually save Buss two million this year. Also it gives you insurance in case Vujajic decides to leave. If Vujajic does leave RJ becomes the backup SG and you can put Ariza on the floor at the SF spot or Radmanovic worst comes to worst.

With Vujajic and Turiaf re-signed we'll be at 83m. After the Jefferson deal it would be 82m or so. Bynum will get his extension planned for next year. We'll call next year the super expensive year. After that year Fisher is gone and we'll probably draft a young PG with Farmar almost ready for an extension. Radmanovic will be in his last year, etcc etc etc..

Point is Buss has said he will spend the cash to win it all.


He spend he'll spend the cash yes. But he didn't mean ANY amount of cash.

This so lame, why not go make up a team of $15 million players and say "Buss said he's spend the cash to win".

Buss didn't have to spend the cash to ALMOST win ... and we're already a contender next season. Why does he have to spend $50 million to go from game 6 of NBA finals to winner? I don't think he does.

If you don't look at the money aspect, RJ makes sense. When you look at the money aspect it doesn't make sense.

You don't care about the money, because it's not your money.


He already said he's made his money and wants more rings. We don't have a re-set button that automatically puts us back in the NBA finals. There's a big difference between winning it all and getting there. Also did you ever once think that hey maybe another team can beat Bynum-Gasol-Kobe. It's not impossible at all...

He said he'll spend it and I'll leave it at that. He wants his rings period...

And the cash he'll have to spend is not astronomical, especially if he finds a way to get rid of a couple guys.
Last edited by Jajwa on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby LakersN4 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:41 pm

Other than Ron for the MLE.. RJeff should be our first option.

Why give up a huge piece like Odom for Artest? You don't know what will happen with that guy. I've said time & time again I'm ONLY for getting Artest if it's for the MLE or Luke etc.. You don't give up important pieces for question marks.
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Postby gill on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:42 pm

Radner wrote:Chad Ford mention that the Nets are looking to clear cap space for 2010. The only problem is that he mention Portland who also have a huge expiring in Raef LaFrentz.

They have a better offer than us.

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/vid ... Id=2459788


LO is more valuable than Raef... not just expiring K value wise, but overall as a player.
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Postby Jajwa on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:43 pm

They have the option of dishing Lamar Odom in a three way deal in this scenario thus receiving picks instead. Cleveland would be very interested for one. That second trade ability helps quite a bit.
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Postby JTC on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:43 pm

Jajwa wrote:Or maybe you guys will eventually realize that Jefferson, contract and all is worth more than Odom.

It may even take Ariza+Odom to get Jefferson but hell I don't really care....

I can't believe you guys are turning down Richard Jefferson for Lamar Odom. It should be a 95% in favor deal. Odom is nothing compared to him, 0-zilch when it comes to playing well at the SF spot. Odom played PF in 2004, did well, played SF in 2005 sucked and then did well at PF, 2006 started great at PF, 2007 started horribly at SF and did well at PF. Plain and simple he can't shoot. RJ's 3 point percentage will go into the 42% range based on how many open looks the triangle SF gets.

RJ is no Paul Pierce to be sure, but he has no weakness, none whatsoever that are so blindingly apparent. He has no lack of a jump shot, he's not soft, he's not a guy who can't slash, he can handle the ball fairly well now, he can pass well, he's smart, can play in a slow down, or high speed offense. He can do pretty much everything. He has no ideal trait about him other than maybe a powerful slashing move to dunk but he's very good in every aspect of the game. If you turn him down because of money reasons, etc... I am going to laugh.

Ariza+Mihm+Odom heck I don't care really...

You get Jefferson and you've got THE TEAM perfect, balanced, with no liabilities anywhere other than maybe PG defense.



I dont think anyone questions RJs overall talent what we wonder is if he will fit in with the current roster and fill in the gaps for what we are lacking on O and D.

I still think Matrix is a better fit with his ability to grab offensive rebounds and his ability to score on garbage plays ie he doesnt need the ball to score....shoots 50% and avg 10rebs and Phoenix best defender when he played there

Ron Ron is 2nd with the lockdown D and general all around ability. He still needs the ball in his hands to score.

RJs 3rd great scoring ability good D
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Postby Tactical on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:43 pm

Radner wrote:Chad Ford mention that the Nets are looking to clear cap space for 2010. The only problem is that he mention Portland who also have a huge expiring in Raef LaFrentz.

They have a better offer than us.

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/vid ... Id=2459788


If you have the choice of trading RJ for a player who can significantly contribute in Lamar Odom, or Raef LaFrentz when both are expiring....why the hell would you ever trade for Raef?
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