NJ Paper: RJ to Lakers a real possibility

Postby Jajwa on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:44 pm

JTC wrote:
Jajwa wrote:Or maybe you guys will eventually realize that Jefferson, contract and all is worth more than Odom.

It may even take Ariza+Odom to get Jefferson but hell I don't really care....

I can't believe you guys are turning down Richard Jefferson for Lamar Odom. It should be a 95% in favor deal. Odom is nothing compared to him, 0-zilch when it comes to playing well at the SF spot. Odom played PF in 2004, did well, played SF in 2005 sucked and then did well at PF, 2006 started great at PF, 2007 started horribly at SF and did well at PF. Plain and simple he can't shoot. RJ's 3 point percentage will go into the 42% range based on how many open looks the triangle SF gets.

RJ is no Paul Pierce to be sure, but he has no weakness, none whatsoever that are so blindingly apparent. He has no lack of a jump shot, he's not soft, he's not a guy who can't slash, he can handle the ball fairly well now, he can pass well, he's smart, can play in a slow down, or high speed offense. He can do pretty much everything. He has no ideal trait about him other than maybe a powerful slashing move to dunk but he's very good in every aspect of the game. If you turn him down because of money reasons, etc... I am going to laugh.

Ariza+Mihm+Odom heck I don't care really...

You get Jefferson and you've got THE TEAM perfect, balanced, with no liabilities anywhere other than maybe PG defense.



I dont think anyone questions RJs overall talent what we wonder is if he will fit in with the current roster and fill in the gaps for what we are lacking on O and D.

I still think Matrix is a better fit with his ability to grab offensive rebounds and his ability to score on garbage plays ie he doesnt need the ball to score....shoots 50% and avg 10rebs and Phoenix best defender when he played there

Ron Ron is 2nd with the lockdown D and general all around ability. He still needs the ball in his hands to score.

RJs 3rd great scoring ability good D


I am in complete agreement and always have been except I doubt Marion in some ways because he can't handle the ball and create his own shot very well.
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Postby gill on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:45 pm

JTC wrote:I still think Matrix is a better fit with his ability to grab offensive rebounds and his ability to score on garbage plays ie he doesnt need the ball to score....shoots 50% and avg 10rebs and Phoenix best defender when he played there




First choice for a replacement? Definitely! Possible? Only if Buss wants to pay a buttload of taxes.

Matrix wants max money. Can't afford him with Pau and Kobe eating up salary... not to mention there's an extension on the way for Drew.
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Postby Radner on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:48 pm

gill wrote:
Radner wrote:Chad Ford mention that the Nets are looking to clear cap space for 2010. The only problem is that he mention Portland who also have a huge expiring in Raef LaFrentz.

They have a better offer than us.

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/vid ... Id=2459788


LO is more valuable than Raef... not just expiring K value wise, but overall as a player.


No, no, you're missing the idea. The Blazers will most likely include Outlaw or Webster along with LaFrentz's expiring. That completely throws our offer in the garbage.

At least with the Blazers' deal, the Nets able to get a young player back along with cap relief. They don't get that with ours.

By the way, Outlaw is going to be an allstar. The only reason they would trade him is because he's inexperienced. On the contrary, RJ provides experience with his two Finals appearances.
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Postby Jajwa on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:49 pm

Ya that's true that would top our offer.

Nothing you can do about that.

This Odom at guard stuff should be funny. I have a feeling that we're going to see it.
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Postby gill on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:58 pm

Radner wrote:
gill wrote:
Radner wrote:Chad Ford mention that the Nets are looking to clear cap space for 2010. The only problem is that he mention Portland who also have a huge expiring in Raef LaFrentz.

They have a better offer than us.

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/vid ... Id=2459788


LO is more valuable than Raef... not just expiring K value wise, but overall as a player.


No, no, you're missing the idea. The Blazers will most likely include Outlaw or Webster along with LaFrentz's expiring. That completely throws our offer in the garbage.

At least with the Blazers' deal, the Nets able to get a young player back along with cap relief. They don't get that with ours.

By the way, Outlaw is going to be an allstar. The only reason they would trade him is because he's inexperienced. On the contrary, RJ provides experience with his two Finals appearances.


Ahh... gotcha.
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Postby LOUIE04 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:02 pm

I thought it would be interesting to compare their stats and not base it on highlights or RJ athletic rep.


Odom Jefferson
6'10 230 6'7 225
PPG 14.2 PPG 22.6
RPG 4.2 RPG 10.6
APG 3.1 APG 3.5
SPG 0.9 SPG 1.0
BPG 0.3 BPG 0.9
FG% 0.466 FG% 0.525
FT% 0.798 FT% 0.698
3P% 0.362 3P% 0.274
MPG 39.0 MPG 37.9
.:jlCobe24:.
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Postby Jajwa on Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:06 pm

Please don't do that again because Odom's stats as mixed up with Jefferson after PPG.

As far as the Odom 3 point percentage etc. Odom may be able with a full summer of practice to hit that mark of say .37% again in 3 point percentage and may even improve his defense and become a more capable triangle guard on the weak side with Pau but my question is..... Why? Why not have the more likely player in Richard Jefferson? Jefferson's defense at the 3 is an upgrade over any SF we started last year including the somewhat overrated Trevor Ariza. It's not world class, but he sure does well against Paul Pierce.
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Postby knm131 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:11 pm

Jajwa wrote:Ya that's true that would top our offer.

Nothing you can do about that.

This Odom at guard stuff should be funny. I have a feeling that we're going to see it.


It's actually not Odom at guard. It's Odom at "2" in the triangle.

IIRC, Odom actually plays 2 in the tri quite a bit.
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Postby Jajwa on Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:15 pm

knm131 wrote:
Jajwa wrote:Ya that's true that would top our offer.

Nothing you can do about that.

This Odom at guard stuff should be funny. I have a feeling that we're going to see it.


It's actually not Odom at guard. It's Odom at "2" in the triangle.

IIRC, Odom actually plays 2 in the tri quite a bit.


Yes he does when they have a match up to exploit inside. Usually this means Kobe wants to post up at the elbow or they'd like to try posting up Walton which rarely works anymore. It'll be very different when he has to do it all the time and the other guy is not a SF but in fact our 7-1 PF named Pau Gasol.

Gasol does not have a 22-24 footer.
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Postby kray28 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:07 pm

dvdrdiscs wrote:
knm131 wrote:
kray28 wrote:
knm131 wrote:
dvdrdiscs wrote:Besides Derek Fisher, how many other guy on this team commits a charge as much as Lamar?


Kobe Bryant leads the team in offensive fouls.

Odom is second.

Derek Fisher is third.

Thank you come again.


It's easy to recite stats, but what's the point if they aren't applied or interpreted correctly?

Numbers are skewed when the fact that no one of the team attacks the basket more than Kobe, is taken into account.

He might lead the team in absolute number of charges committed, but he also leads the team in attacks of the basket (and successful conversions and points as well).

It's kind of like turnovers....the more you handle the ball, the greater the chances are that you will commit a turnover. Hence it's not surprising that Kobe also leads the team in turnovers.

Lamar commits charges at a higher rate than anyone of the team.


He didn't ask for rate.

He asked for many guys on the Laker squad commit more than Lamar Odom?

I'm not sure about the rate, as I cannot find any stats out there on time ball spent in hands or, "touches" or anything like that. The closest thing I can see is minutes played.

Odom committed 23 offensive fouls in 2921 minutes (37.9 mins) played this season.
That's 0.0079 offensive fouls per minute played.

Kobe committed 29 offensive fouls in 3192 minutes (38.9 mins) played this season.
That's 0.0091 offensive fouls per minute played.

Unless the rate is just because YOU say so, it looks like Kobe does commit offensive fouls at a greater rate than Odom does as well.



Rate of charges per drive to the basket not minutes?


Duh, right? You can figure it out, but knm131 can't. He's more interested in trying to appear right.

Just in case you don't get it...it's not a per minute rate, it's a per drive (or even a per shot attempt) rate.
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Postby Helljumper on Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:10 pm

IIRC, last year, a three way was being discussed in which Gerald Wallace would be involved as well. I forgot who would be getting who but I would rather have Wallace than Jefferson although I've been a fan of both of them for a while.
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Postby popo on Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:10 pm

Is anyone a member of BSPN insider?


http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features ... s%2frumors

Jefferson For Odom?
Richard Jefferson | Nets
Insider Only
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Postby last stand on Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:11 pm

odom, mihm, vlad, and our 2nd round pick for richard jefferson+jason collins(bad contract)+ 10th pick overall

we select someone i don't know who
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Postby knm131 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:12 pm

Put it this way ... the more a trade is talked about, the less likely it is to happen. NO ONE heard of Kwame + change for Pau, or the Ariza deal, etc.
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Postby The LeBrons on Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:14 pm

popo wrote:Is anyone a member of BSPN insider?


http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/features ... s%2frumors

Jefferson For Odom?
Richard Jefferson | Nets
Insider Only


It's the same article that was posted in the OP.
“That was a trip. It felt great, though. I don’t got to worry about nobody poisoning my burger now. I can eat in peace.”

- Kobe, the NBA MVP
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Postby 10scott10 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:14 pm

Helljumper wrote:IIRC, last year, a three way was being discussed in which Gerald Wallace would be involved as well. I forgot who would be getting who but I would rather have Wallace than Jefferson although I've been a fan of both of them for a while.

we were, but IIRC, the bobcats said no
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Postby last stand on Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:18 pm

knm131 wrote:Put it this way ... the more a trade is talked about, the less likely it is to happen. NO ONE heard of Kwame + change for Pau, or the Ariza deal, etc.


not always

but yes this trade reeks of that type of situation

i dont think personally mitch and phil are high on scorers who play solid not good but solid defense but can't pass or rebound at a high rate.

also if you look at the roster phil and mitch don't like guys who rely on athleticism they like skill guys

guys who rely on their skill to produce

for instance ariza is very skilled defensively

luke is very smart offensvely

thats why guys like ron artest and marion are most likely on the top of our list guys who are smart and play with great skill

if you are wondering why i said skill so much even when it wasn't warranted well i just felt like saying skill and skilled
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Postby Damian Necronamous on Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:26 pm

last stand wrote:odom, mihm, vlad, and our 2nd round pick for richard jefferson+jason collins(bad contract)+ 10th pick overall

we select someone i don't know who


Jason Collins was already traded to Memphis in exchange for Stromile Swift.

If NJ agreed to trade us RJ and Swift (an expiring) for Odom and Vlad, I would do it in a second.
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Postby Jajwa on Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:26 pm

I really can't agree with that sentiment. Richard Jefferson doesn't rely purely on athleticism, he passes well, and has an overall very good small forward game. He's far more intelligent than Ariza and is actually a good defender. He's no liability in any way shape or form and has a far higher IQ than Shawn Marion and is no head case.

Ariza is an athlete plain and simple, he has only some defensive skills and is no lock down wizard. If anything Ariza disproves your theory. He's an athlete in every sense of the word.

His rebounding is irrelevant at the SF position and it's not bad actually it's as everything else is in relation to Richard Jefferson, solid. His passing is the same. Everything you could possibly ask from Richard Jefferson he can do. He has no holes in his game. He just isn't a fantastic anything...
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Postby Damian Necronamous on Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:27 pm

10scott10 wrote:
Helljumper wrote:IIRC, last year, a three way was being discussed in which Gerald Wallace would be involved as well. I forgot who would be getting who but I would rather have Wallace than Jefferson although I've been a fan of both of them for a while.

we were, but IIRC, the bobcats said no


Yeah, I believe NJ was getting Odom, the Bobcats were getting RJ and we were getting Wallace.
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Postby last stand on Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:32 pm

Jajwa wrote:I really can't agree with that sentiment. Richard Jefferson doesn't rely purely on athleticism, he passes well, and has an overall very good small forward game. He's far more intelligent than Ariza and is actually a good defender. He's no liability in any way shape or form and has a far higher IQ than Shawn Marion and is no head case.

Ariza is an athlete plain and simple, he has only some defensive skills and is no lock down wizard. If anything Ariza disproves your theory. He's an athlete in every sense of the word.


ariza is one of the most skilled defenders in the pacific division

and richard jefferson was a fastbreak warrior how will he do in a halfcourt game

will he be able to make the correct passes the correct cuts

will he be able to at least slow down pierce and lebron

will he be able to take scoring and creating pressure off of kobe

i know ron artest will can richard jefferson i don't know i'll admit i don't know enough about him to give a full analysis on how and where his spots will be to score facilitate and how he will defend

i do know that when ron artest is motivated and playing at the top of his game hes a top 20 player and that cannot be said about RJ24
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Postby Jajwa on Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:34 pm

I didn't say get him over Artest.

Richard Jefferson has played in the half court as well as the open court. He's just as good there as he is in the open floor. He can do all of those cuts etc.. etc...Ariza is one of the premier defenders in the Pacific Division? Says who? Clublakers? Pierce blew by him like he was a joke...Ariza is quick and has long arms and is explosive. His instincts are nowhere near premier. Why wouldn't Richard Jefferson be able to take the scoring load off of Kobe with Gasol and Bynum inside?

He's far more intelligent than Trevor Ariza thanks to his college days so if you really expect Ariza to be the answer based on his grasp of the triangle offense you are in for a real surprise.
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Postby 10scott10 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:36 pm

Jajwa wrote:I didn't say get him over Artest.

You simply haven't watched Richard Jefferson then if you don't think he can play in the half court. He's just as good there as he is in the open floor. He can do all of those cuts etc.. etc...

Ariza is one of the premier defenders in the Pacific Division? Says who? Clublakers? Pierce blew by him like he was a joke...

Ariza is quick and has long arms and is explosive. His instincts are nowhere near premier.

he is definitly a top 5 swingman defender in the pacific. division. then again, that does say something about the state of defense in this division
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Postby last stand on Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:40 pm

Jajwa wrote:I didn't say get him over Artest.

Richard Jefferson has played in the half court as well as the open court. He's just as good there as he is in the open floor. He can do all of those cuts etc.. etc...Ariza is one of the premier defenders in the Pacific Division? Says who? Clublakers? Pierce blew by him like he was a joke...Ariza is quick and has long arms and is explosive. His instincts are nowhere near premier. Why wouldn't Richard Jefferson be able to take the scoring load off of Kobe with Gasol and Bynum inside?

He's far more intelligent than Trevor Ariza thanks to his college days so if you really expect Ariza to be the answer based on his grasp of the triangle offense you are in for a real surprise.


trevor ariza played against pierce for like 10 minutes

and he was out since january

i never said he was the answer

look if RJ24 is as good as you apparently think he is i will be fine with him

but ron artest is my guy has been my guy since he was with the bulls hes in my top 10 list of favorite players

kobe
lebron
joe johnson
andrew bynum
tim duncan
chris paul
chris bosh
ron artest
baron davis
allen iverson
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Postby Jajwa on Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:42 pm

last stand wrote:
Jajwa wrote:I didn't say get him over Artest.

Richard Jefferson has played in the half court as well as the open court. He's just as good there as he is in the open floor. He can do all of those cuts etc.. etc...Ariza is one of the premier defenders in the Pacific Division? Says who? Clublakers? Pierce blew by him like he was a joke...Ariza is quick and has long arms and is explosive. His instincts are nowhere near premier. Why wouldn't Richard Jefferson be able to take the scoring load off of Kobe with Gasol and Bynum inside?

He's far more intelligent than Trevor Ariza thanks to his college days so if you really expect Ariza to be the answer based on his grasp of the triangle offense you are in for a real surprise.


trevor ariza played against pierce for like 10 minutes

and he was out since january

i never said he was the answer

look if RJ24 is as good as you apparently think he is i will be fine with him

but ron artest is my guy has been my guy since he was with the bulls hes in my top 10 list of favorite players

kobe
lebron
joe johnson
andrew bynum
tim duncan
chris paul
chris bosh
ron artest
baron davis
allen iverson


I don't think Jefferson is that good I just think he's a far better played at SF than anyone we've seen since hell I dono, Caron Butler 2004 form at least.

Artest is better, no doubt...
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