NJ Paper: RJ to Lakers a real possibility

Postby last stand on Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:43 am

deal wrote:RJ not a great 3 pt. shooter either; better than Odom but thats not much to talk about...


Some will come back wiht a better offer for LO or we ride him out...


uh richard jefferson gets to the free throw line 8.3 times a game which for those who know basketball is a very important part of defense because it puts the other team on the ropes forcing them to not be aggressive on both sides of the ball

plus he adds a dimension to our offense we haven't ever had next to kobe

another guy who can routinely get to the free throw line and make his free throws

8 times a game is about 16 points if he makes his free throws

16 easy points
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Postby gill on Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:49 am

basketboy wrote:
gill wrote:
basketboy wrote:
Pig Miller wrote:P.S. i'm still not excited about trading odom


i agree.. we got killed on the boards.. so we want to.. trade our best rebounder..? kk, sounds good.


With Bynum and Pau upfront, you don't think we'd get as many boards? Plus the fact that Odom will be playing the 3 or the 2 and will camp out on the perimeter, you think he'd get as many boards playing far away from the basket as he used to? :man3:


personally, id bring odom off the bench to tell you the truth. id let him come in and replace pau/drew, and have trevor starting the 3 :man12:


14 million bench player! woohooo!!!! :freak2:
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Postby deal on Sun Jun 22, 2008 11:55 am

last stand wrote:
deal wrote:RJ not a great 3 pt. shooter either; better than Odom but thats not much to talk about...


Some will come back wiht a better offer for LO or we ride him out...


uh richard jefferson gets to the free throw line 8.3 times a game which for those who know basketball is a very important part of defense because it puts the other team on the ropes forcing them to not be aggressive on both sides of the ball

plus he adds a dimension to our offense we haven't ever had next to kobe

another guy who can routinely get to the free throw line and make his free throws

8 times a game is about 16 points if he makes his free throws

16 easy points



yea, but you said someone that knows about basketball so that leaves me out I guess your saying...lol


anyway doubt this is going down...just another :smoker:
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Postby Brand New on Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:03 pm

I'll be happy to get Jefferson, but the truth is Mitch doesn't want this guy. Jefferson would be somewhat perfect because he is in the same division as Pierce and he would know how to guard this guy and other SF's in the league.
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Postby mapabu1 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:04 pm

I think if Buss gave the okay he was willing to take on his salary it can go down. I think RJ would be great fit since is a consistent scorer and a good defender.
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Postby last stand on Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:04 pm

deal wrote:
last stand wrote:
deal wrote:RJ not a great 3 pt. shooter either; better than Odom but thats not much to talk about...


Some will come back wiht a better offer for LO or we ride him out...


uh richard jefferson gets to the free throw line 8.3 times a game which for those who know basketball is a very important part of defense because it puts the other team on the ropes forcing them to not be aggressive on both sides of the ball

plus he adds a dimension to our offense we haven't ever had next to kobe

another guy who can routinely get to the free throw line and make his free throws

8 times a game is about 16 points if he makes his free throws

16 easy points



yea, but you said someone that knows about basketball so that leaves me out I guess your saying...lol


anyway doubt this is going down...just another :smoker:


never said that just said that for those who know

you may very well just not have remembered :man12:
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Postby deal on Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:08 pm

last stand wrote:
deal wrote:
last stand wrote:
deal wrote:RJ not a great 3 pt. shooter either; better than Odom but thats not much to talk about...


Some will come back wiht a better offer for LO or we ride him out...


uh richard jefferson gets to the free throw line 8.3 times a game which for those who know basketball is a very important part of defense because it puts the other team on the ropes forcing them to not be aggressive on both sides of the ball

plus he adds a dimension to our offense we haven't ever had next to kobe

another guy who can routinely get to the free throw line and make his free throws

8 times a game is about 16 points if he makes his free throws

16 easy points



yea, but you said someone that knows about basketball so that leaves me out I guess your saying...lol


anyway doubt this is going down...just another :smoker:


never said that just said that for those who know

you may very well just not have remembered :man12:



Just kidding but I do think u got it right the first time, i over looked his FT's....good call


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Postby Chicano on Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:34 pm

Kobe's Empire wrote:artest would be a dream come true....

then jefferson, then prince.
BB wrote:Artest, then RJ then Prince.
My thoughts exactly.

Some of you really overrate Prince as your number one option to get for Odom, yes he is somewhat of a hometown boy, that's nice & all, & he's a cool guy, etc.. but don't let those things sway you so much, of course indeed he is a fabolous player as well, but I truly believe RJ would help us out in a lot more important ways & with greater toughness in certain areas we lack, not saying by any shot he's a better defender than Prince, but he's solid and can be close to great when he puts his mind to it & wants to be, especially with that athleticism. Prince's outside shot to me just seems awkward and too inconsistant to me at times. I've seen on several occasions where the defense makes the adjustment, kinda like on Odom most of the time, & just dares him to shoot outside cuz they know what he really wants to do is just go inside, too predictable, & then he'll start clanking shot after shot from the outside.

For those who don't have the benefit, well I don't know, but I personally HAVE league pass, and if you do, and you watch a lot of NBA games in general cuz you're a pure basketball fan as well, then you would've probably seen a good dose of the new jersey nets this past season & seasons before & followed this guy somewhat. I think unfortunately, & to those who don't have it, not exactly your fault, you don't know any better, but some people are kinda' just makin' statement based off of reputation & who SOUNDS more exciting or gets highlighted more & displayed by the media, which would obviously be prince, & oh because jefferson is on a not so good team doesn't necessarily diminish much from him in comparison to prince, PRINCE just has WAY BETTER overall teammates and a BETTER team. RJ doesn't have much control over that. Anyway, my point is, if you TRULY know basketball & actually watched a ton of this guy's games, not just when they play the lakers, but league pass & other stuff, then I can't see how you can't be more excited about the prospect of getting RJ instead of Prince.

23 PPG
47% Fgs
37 % 3pt (Almost 40)
Gets to the Free Throw line At least 8 Times a game, by far would be the closest to Kobe & shoots em' at 80%.
Played & started ALL 82 games last season.
Attacks the basket with reckless abandon, physical, tough, can post up, has a fade away, can create for himself, shoot the mid range shot as well as the 3, athletic as hell, dunking machine, fastbreak, runner, slasher, tenacious, etc.
We could finally have our number two bonified scorer on the close to the wing to help Kobe. Yes Bynum & Gasol will do their thing, but this is a different kind of threat, a pure bonified scorer that can create for himself in a lot more ways than Odom offensively imo AND Prince.
last stand wrote:artest
RJ
prince
marion
miller

in that order

for anyone who watches more than laker basketball you know that is the correct order
Whole Post Quoted For Truth, ESPECIALLY that last line. You know what's up. I'm sure you must have League Pass or something like myself.
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Postby basketboy on Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:12 pm

gill wrote:
basketboy wrote:
gill wrote:
basketboy wrote:
Pig Miller wrote:P.S. i'm still not excited about trading odom


i agree.. we got killed on the boards.. so we want to.. trade our best rebounder..? kk, sounds good.


With Bynum and Pau upfront, you don't think we'd get as many boards? Plus the fact that Odom will be playing the 3 or the 2 and will camp out on the perimeter, you think he'd get as many boards playing far away from the basket as he used to? :man3:


personally, id bring odom off the bench to tell you the truth. id let him come in and replace pau/drew, and have trevor starting the 3 :man12:


14 million bench player! woohooo!!!! :freak2:


just trying to give manu a run for his money for the 6th player award :mhihi:
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Postby vic5150 on Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:14 pm

Chicano wrote:
Kobe's Empire wrote:artest would be a dream come true....

then jefferson, then prince.
BB wrote:Artest, then RJ then Prince.
My thoughts exactly.

Some of you really overrate Prince as your number one option to get for Odom, yes he is somewhat of a hometown boy, that's nice & all, & he's a cool guy, etc.. but don't let those things sway you so much, of course indeed he is a fabolous player as well, but I truly believe RJ would help us out in a lot more important ways & with greater toughness in certain areas we lack, not saying by any shot he's a better defender than Prince, but he's solid and can be close to great when he puts his mind to it & wants to be, especially with that athleticism. Prince's outside shot to me just seems awkward and too inconsistant to me at times. I've seen on several occasions where the defense makes the adjustment, kinda like on Odom most of the time, & just dares him to shoot outside cuz they know what he really wants to do is just go inside, too predictable, & then he'll start clanking shot after shot from the outside.

For those who don't have the benefit, well I don't know, but I personally HAVE league pass, and if you do, and you watch a lot of NBA games in general cuz you're a pure basketball fan as well, then you would've probably seen a good dose of the new jersey nets this past season & seasons before & followed this guy somewhat. I think unfortunately, & to those who don't have it, not exactly your fault, you don't know any better, but some people are kinda' just makin' statement based off of reputation & who SOUNDS more exciting or gets highlighted more & displayed by the media, which would obviously be prince, & oh because jefferson is on a not so good team doesn't necessarily diminish much from him in comparison to prince, PRINCE just has WAY BETTER overall teammates and a BETTER team. RJ doesn't have much control over that. Anyway, my point is, if you TRULY know basketball & actually watched a ton of this guy's games, not just when they play the lakers, but league pass & other stuff, then I can't see how you can't be more excited about the prospect of getting RJ instead of Prince.

23 PPG
47% Fgs
37 % 3pt (Almost 40)
Gets to the Free Throw line At least 8 Times a game, by far would be the closest to Kobe & shoots em' at 80%.
Played & started ALL 82 games last season.
Attacks the basket with reckless abandon, physical, tough, can post up, has a fade away, can create for himself, shoot the mid range shot as well as the 3, athletic as hell, dunking machine, fastbreak, runner, slasher, tenacious, etc.
We could finally have our number two bonified scorer on the close to the wing to help Kobe. Yes Bynum & Gasol will do their thing, but this is a different kind of threat, a pure bonified scorer that can create for himself in a lot more ways than Odom offensively imo AND Prince.
last stand wrote:artest
RJ
prince
marion
miller

in that order

for anyone who watches more than laker basketball you know that is the correct order
Whole Post Quoted For Truth, ESPECIALLY that last line. You know what's up. I'm sure you must have League Pass or something like myself.


After that all I can say is; I'm vic5150 and I approve this post. Close thread.
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Postby oversteerdawg on Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:26 pm

last stand wrote:
deal wrote:RJ not a great 3 pt. shooter either; better than Odom but thats not much to talk about...


Some will come back wiht a better offer for LO or we ride him out...


uh richard jefferson gets to the free throw line 8.3 times a game which for those who know basketball is a very important part of defense because it puts the other team on the ropes forcing them to not be aggressive on both sides of the ball

plus he adds a dimension to our offense we haven't ever had next to kobe

another guy who can routinely get to the free throw line and make his free throws

8 times a game is about 16 points if he makes his free throws

16 easy points


I don't think 8 times a game means 16 FT's. I'm sure they mean 8.3 FT's/game.
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Postby Tactical on Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:18 pm

last stand wrote:
deal wrote:RJ not a great 3 pt. shooter either; better than Odom but thats not much to talk about...


Some will come back wiht a better offer for LO or we ride him out...


uh richard jefferson gets to the free throw line 8.3 times a game which for those who know basketball is a very important part of defense because it puts the other team on the ropes forcing them to not be aggressive on both sides of the ball

plus he adds a dimension to our offense we haven't ever had next to kobe

another guy who can routinely get to the free throw line and make his free throws

8 times a game is about 16 points if he makes his free throws

16 easy points


Does that mean that an and 1 only counts as .5 trips to the line?
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Postby dvdrdiscs on Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:00 pm

knm131 wrote:
dvdrdiscs wrote:
knm131 wrote:
kray28 wrote:
knm131 wrote:
dvdrdiscs wrote:Besides Derek Fisher, how many other guy on this team commits a charge as much as Lamar?


Kobe Bryant leads the team in offensive fouls.

Odom is second.

Derek Fisher is third.

Thank you come again.


It's easy to recite stats, but what's the point if they aren't applied or interpreted correctly?

Numbers are skewed when the fact that no one of the team attacks the basket more than Kobe, is taken into account.

He might lead the team in absolute number of charges committed, but he also leads the team in attacks of the basket (and successful conversions and points as well).

It's kind of like turnovers....the more you handle the ball, the greater the chances are that you will commit a turnover. Hence it's not surprising that Kobe also leads the team in turnovers.

Lamar commits charges at a higher rate than anyone of the team.


He didn't ask for rate.

He asked for many guys on the Laker squad commit more than Lamar Odom?

I'm not sure about the rate, as I cannot find any stats out there on time ball spent in hands or, "touches" or anything like that. The closest thing I can see is minutes played.

Odom committed 23 offensive fouls in 2921 minutes (37.9 mins) played this season.
That's 0.0079 offensive fouls per minute played.

Kobe committed 29 offensive fouls in 3192 minutes (38.9 mins) played this season.
That's 0.0091 offensive fouls per minute played.

Unless the rate is just because YOU say so, it looks like Kobe does commit offensive fouls at a greater rate than Odom does as well.



Rate of charges per drive to the basket not minutes?


Ok, where would you pull the stat "drives to the basket"? I have no idea how to pull that data. The only reliable piece of data we have easy access to is minutes, or games played. Otherwise, it's just a big old guessing game.

One way we COULD do it, is look at Field Goal types attempted. Looking at "Close" and "Dunk" type shots, we could infer in order to take a close shot or dunk, you have to drive to the basket (a safe assumption).

25% of Kobe's shots are considered either "Close" or "Dunks" (per 82games.com).
Kobe took 1,690 field goals in 2007-2008 regular season
Therefore, 422.5 "close" or "Dunk" type field goals.

For Odom, he takes 53% of his shots as "Close" or "Dunks".
Odom took 795 field goals in 2007-2008 regular season.
Therefore, 421.4 "close" or "dunk" type field goals.

If "close" or "dunk" type field goal attempts represent anything close to "drives to the basket", then we can surmise that on 422.5 close/dunk field goal attempts, Kobe committed 29 offensive fouls and Odom 23 offensive fouls on 421.4 close/dunk field goal attempts.

Offensive fouls PER close/dunk field goal attempt?
Kobe: 0.069 (or 6.9%)
Odom: 0.055 (or 5.5%)

Kobe takes a LOT of shots, but 75% of them are jump shots. Lamar takes fewer shots, but the majority of his are VERY close to the basket (where charges typically occur). That's why MOST offensive foul calls are committed by big men (see the 82games.com list).

Either way you slice it, Kobe commits more offensive fouls, whether absolute or adjusted per drive to the basket, than Odom.



Driving to the basket is not a stat most of anyone keeps track of. But if you've watched every Laker game since Lamar has been on this team (I have by the way), you can see he commits a lot of offensive fouls when driving to the basket.
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Postby HermosaJoe on Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:29 pm

Savory Griddles wrote:I'd put a million dollars down that RJ would move in with Luke while looking for a house......and never move out.


Are you guys saying what I think you're saying?? That Luke is @*% ?

How about Gasol too?
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Postby leakbrewergator on Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:14 pm

RJ would be a waste of space on our roster.

He is a lesser 2 than Kobe and a lesser 3 than L.O.
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Postby BB on Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:23 pm

leakbrewergator wrote:RJ would be a waste of space on our roster.

He is a lesser 2 than Kobe and a lesser 3 than L.O.

The guy averages more points, is a better shooter and defender than LO. LO will never be able to force teams to spread their defences. He didn't do it in his whole career, he won't get a jumper amazingly at 30. Lamar is better at the 4, but that's about it.
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Postby leakbrewergator on Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:27 pm

BB wrote:
leakbrewergator wrote:RJ would be a waste of space on our roster.

He is a lesser 2 than Kobe and a lesser 3 than L.O.

The guy averages more points, is a better shooter and defender than LO. LO will never be able to force teams to spread their defences. He didn't do it in his whole career, he won't get a jumper amazingly at 30. Lamar is better at the 4, but that's about it.


Lamar will be the biggest match-up problem at the 3 next season. Jefferson's health is an issue.

I don't see Jefferson grabbing a rebound leading the break and posting up his man at the other end.

It's not all about shooting, if it were Stojakovic would be MVP every year.
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Postby JoeHeff on Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:34 pm

leakbrewergator wrote:
BB wrote:
leakbrewergator wrote:RJ would be a waste of space on our roster.

He is a lesser 2 than Kobe and a lesser 3 than L.O.

The guy averages more points, is a better shooter and defender than LO. LO will never be able to force teams to spread their defences. He didn't do it in his whole career, he won't get a jumper amazingly at 30. Lamar is better at the 4, but that's about it.


Lamar will be the biggest match-up problem at the 3 next season. Jefferson's health is an issue.

I don't see Jefferson grabbing a rebound leading the break and posting up his man at the other end.

It's not all about shooting, if it were Stojakovic would be MVP every year.


And LO has been MVP every year since it's not all about shooting. Oh wait... DOH! That's not the case either.

And right after Odom leads a fast break, he can then get blown by on defense, and then get called for charging on the next Lakers' posession. Or brick a wide open 3 pointer. You know when I'm at the gym playing BBall with my coworkers, every time I throw up a brick, I shout "ODOM!!!" I can't shoot so it happens all the time.
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Postby BB on Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:35 pm

leakbrewergator wrote:Lamar will be the biggest match-up problem at the 3 next season. Jefferson's health is an issue.

I don't see Jefferson grabbing a rebound leading the break and posting up his man at the other end.

It's not all about shooting, if it were Stojakovic would be MVP every year.

Yes, he will be a match-up problem for us. What's so hard for you people to get that everyone will crowd the paint while having someone on Kobe like the Celtics did? They'll force Lamar's jumper to beat them. And Odom isn't the healthiest dudes either.

Right, Odom grabs a rebound, leads the break and posts up his man at least 10 times a game, if you get my sarcasm. I'd rather have a SF who passes on the break or whatever and unclogs the lanes.

If Stojakovic could defend, I'd love him for Lamar, but nobody would be that stupid to do it.
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Postby JoeHeff on Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:37 pm

To add to that, I think what everyone is missing here is that when we got Pau this year, that's our upgrade from Odom. If we got Chris Paul, Derek Fisher wouldn't be playing center. He'd be on the bench or traded or something. LO is a good inside player, not great, but good... But Pau is better. LO has got to sit or be traded.

Edit: And yeah, silly example, but first great point guard that popped into my head.
Last edited by JoeHeff on Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby leakbrewergator on Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:38 pm

JoeHeff wrote:
leakbrewergator wrote:
BB wrote:
leakbrewergator wrote:RJ would be a waste of space on our roster.

He is a lesser 2 than Kobe and a lesser 3 than L.O.

The guy averages more points, is a better shooter and defender than LO. LO will never be able to force teams to spread their defences. He didn't do it in his whole career, he won't get a jumper amazingly at 30. Lamar is better at the 4, but that's about it.


Lamar will be the biggest match-up problem at the 3 next season. Jefferson's health is an issue.

I don't see Jefferson grabbing a rebound leading the break and posting up his man at the other end.

It's not all about shooting, if it were Stojakovic would be MVP every year.


And LO has been MVP every year since it's not all about shooting. Oh wait... DOH! That's not the case either.

And right after Odom leads a fast break, he can then get blown by on defense, and then get called for charging on the next Lakers' posession. Or brick a wide open 3 pointer. You know when I'm at the gym playing BBall with my coworkers, every time I throw up a brick, I shout "ODOM!!!" I can't shoot so it happens all the time.



That's funny! ODOM!!! I gotta use that. If only I missed shots...
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Postby lakerman24 on Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:22 pm

Aceiz2fresh wrote:vlad, luke, coby, mihm for harris n RJ
: ]
everyone wins.


What makes you think New Jersey will make that deal
give me one good reason why?
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Postby Maddocks15 on Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:47 pm

BB wrote:
leakbrewergator wrote:Lamar will be the biggest match-up problem at the 3 next season. Jefferson's health is an issue.

I don't see Jefferson grabbing a rebound leading the break and posting up his man at the other end.

It's not all about shooting, if it were Stojakovic would be MVP every year.

Yes, he will be a match-up problem for us. What's so hard for you people to get that everyone will crowd the paint while having someone on Kobe like the Celtics did? They'll force Lamar's jumper to beat them. And Odom isn't the healthiest dudes either.

Right, Odom grabs a rebound, leads the break and posts up his man at least 10 times a game, if you get my sarcasm. I'd rather have a SF who passes on the break or whatever and unclogs the lanes.

If Stojakovic could defend, I'd love him for Lamar, but nobody would be that stupid to do it.


actually odom grabs the rebound, takes it down, beats his man with his dribble, then blowns the layup.
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Postby 10scott10 on Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:54 pm

BB wrote:
leakbrewergator wrote:Lamar will be the biggest match-up problem at the 3 next season. Jefferson's health is an issue.

I don't see Jefferson grabbing a rebound leading the break and posting up his man at the other end.

It's not all about shooting, if it were Stojakovic would be MVP every year.

Yes, he will be a match-up problem for us. What's so hard for you people to get that everyone will crowd the paint while having someone on Kobe like the Celtics did? They'll force Lamar's jumper to beat them. And Odom isn't the healthiest dudes either.

Right, Odom grabs a rebound, leads the break and posts up his man at least 10 times a game, if you get my sarcasm. I'd rather have a SF who passes on the break or whatever and unclogs the lanes.

If Stojakovic could defend, I'd love him for Lamar, but nobody would be that stupid to do it.

well if he could defend, he would have won the MVP in 03-04
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Postby last stand on Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:03 pm

coby karl for lebron james

pretty even for both teams
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