Rumor: Michael Beasley For Jordan Hill?

Re: DPOY

Postby JUST-MING on Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:36 pm

therealdeal wrote:All that tells me is that Denver didn’t do it as effectively as Oklahoma.

Yeah, because they didn’t have Serge Ibaka; they had Javale Mcgee. As for perimeter defenders, Afflalo is better than all of those guys (Westbrook, Sefolosha and Harden).
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Re: DPOY

Postby therealdeal on Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:50 pm

JUST-MING wrote:
therealdeal wrote:All that tells me is that Denver didn’t do it as effectively as Oklahoma.

Yeah, because they didn’t have Serge Ibaka. They had Javale Mcgee. As for perimeter defenders, Afflalo is better than all of those guys (Westbrook, Sefolosha and Harden).


I've kept track of some of your posts and you have a habit of saying wide, sweeping remarks and then scrambling to cover for them if someone says something. I'm not being critical at all, just an observation. As a mod I like to keep track of newer posters.

As for your comments, while what you're saying is true regarding Ibaka, that's not grounds for Defensive Player of the Year like you said. It just means he's a good help defender and shot blocker.

As for Afllalo being a better perimeter defender than Sefolosha, Westbrook, and Harden there's a few things wrong with that:
1. He's not better than Sefolosha. Not by a long shot. Sefolosha was named to the second NBA All-Defensive team in 2010 and has been known as one of the league's best perimeter defenders for years now. Aaron Afflalo is a good defender, but he's smaller and has less reach than Thabo.

2. Harden is a good defender. I would put him just below someone like Afflalo. Westbrook just below that.

3. It's not about individual ability, it's about what the team does. Those three together are better than what Afflalo can do by himself. It's about doubling and having other athletes playing the passing lanes to keep Bynum from going anywhere. Oklahoma did a better job than Denver because of the guys that I mentioned.
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Re: DPOY

Postby JUST-MING on Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:16 pm

therealdeal wrote:It just means he’s a good help defender and shot blocker.

If that was the criterion used, then Javale Mcgee (2.2 bpg) and Deandre Jordan (2.0 bpg) were shafted. It doesn’t explain why coaches picked him on the All-D 1st team and media picked him runner-up for DPOY.

Before you remark Garnett was a better defender; KG played All-D 1st team level at center, not forward.
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Re: DPOY

Postby therealdeal on Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:28 pm

JUST-MING wrote:
therealdeal wrote:It just means he’s a good help defender and shot blocker.

If that was the criterion used, then Javale Mcgee (2.2 bpg) and Deandre Jordan (2.0 bpg) were shafted. It doesn’t explain why coaches picked him on the All-D 1st team and media picked him runner-up for DPOY.

Before you remark Garnett was a better defender; KG played All-D 1st team level at center, not forward.

What are you talking about? Those two aren't good defenders they're just shot blockers too. I didn't even say anything about Garnett.
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Re: Rumor: Michael Beasley For Jordan Hill?

Postby Rooscooter on Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:33 pm

Wow.... raising Ibaka to the top of the defensive ranks....... just wow....

He's a one dimensional player that can block a few shots.... that's about it. Blocking shots is an overrated stat anyway. Remember game 2 where Ibaka blocked a bunch of shots and Reggie Miller counted them.... all but 1 went back to the Lakers and we scored on a lot of those possessions. Blocked shots isn't a good gauge of defensive skills. Most "shot blockers" get out of position numerous times during a game to get a couple blocks.... while leaving wide open lanes for offensive rebounds and/or put-backs... Ibaka specifically puts most of his blocks out of bounds...

As for Ibaka covering Bynum one on one..... that went Andrew's way most of the time.... even to the point that they would avoid that match up.....

Fans love blocks..... fantasy "owners" love blocks but they alone don't mean much other than you touched someones shot....
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Re: DPOY

Postby JUST-MING on Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:34 pm

therealdeal wrote:What are you talking about?

The “subject” of 6 of my last posts in this thread is “DPOY”. Does this help? 2012 DPOY. 2012 All-D Teams.

2011-12 NBA Defensive Player of the Year
Code: Select all
Player (Team)           1st  2nd  3rd  Pts
Tyson Chandler (Knicks)  45   25   11  311
Serge Ibaka (Thunder)    41   24   17  294
Tyson Chandler (Knicks)  18   23   27  186

2011-12 NBA All-Defensive Team
Code: Select all
Pos  Player (Team)           1st  2nd  Pts
For  Serge Ibaka (Thunder)    20    7   47
Cen  Dwight Howard (Magic)    16    9   41
Cen  Tyson Chandler (Knicks)  13   10   36

Re: Deandre Jordan and Javale Mcgee didn’t receive a single vote from either the coaches nor the media.
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Re: DPOY

Postby lakersin4 on Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:07 pm

therealdeal wrote:
JUST-MING wrote:
therealdeal wrote:Ibaka did not single-handedly do anything.

He was a big effin part of it. He made it all work.


He was a part of it.

So were Westbrook, Harden, and Sefolosha who not only played very good perimeter defense, but doubled effectively.

So were Perkins and Collison. They played very well down low and around the basket, keeping Pau and Andrew off of the glass and away from the spots that they wanted to be.

To give Ibaka credit would be like giving Artest all the credit when our offense was working well. Just because he's an important piece to that, doesn't mean he's the most important piece. And that especially doesn't mean that he was the Defensive Player of the Year.

I agree that 1 man doesn't deserve the credit.. Defense is always a team effort.. However in your analogy Ibaka would be more like Kobe getting all the credit for our offense working.. Seeing as he's without a shadow of a doubt the best defender on that team & their anchor.
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Re: Rumor: Michael Beasley For Jordan Hill?

Postby thkthebest on Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:13 pm

Ibaka is not the best defender on that team. Sefolosha is the best defender on that team. I'm not even sure Ibaka is much better than Perkins.
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Re: Rumor: Michael Beasley For Jordan Hill?

Postby Ariza3 on Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:27 pm

lol ibaka is not a dpoy caliber defender. hes a shot blocker, young, and athletic. 1-on-1 defender hes average.

okc's athleticism allows them to be a good defensive team. ibaka is average at best. but a very good shot blocker...even though he sends the ball into the audience and gives the other team a 2nd chance to score :man10:
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Re: Rumor: Michael Beasley For Jordan Hill?

Postby therealdeal on Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:39 pm

Look throughout history and you'll probably find that the League's leading shot blocker gets DPOY votes. Just because someone is a great shotblocker does not make them a great defender.
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Re: Rumor: Michael Beasley For Jordan Hill?

Postby Weezy on Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:53 pm

I'm not even really sure what the main point of the discussion going on right now is, but I agree that having a large number of blocked shots doesn't necessarily make you a good defender. It's similar to having a large number of steal, doesn't necessarily mean you're a good defender, could mean you gamble a lot. For example, CP3 gets a lot of steals, but I still wouldn't call him a good defensive player.
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Re: Rumor: Michael Beasley For Jordan Hill?

Postby XXIV on Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:19 pm

Weezy wrote:I'm not even really sure what the main point of the discussion going on right now is, but I agree that having a large number of blocked shots doesn't necessarily make you a good defender. It's similar to having a large number of steal, doesn't necessarily mean you're a good defender, could mean you gamble a lot. For example, CP3 gets a lot of steals, but I still wouldn't call him a good defensive player.


Neither would I but he was still named 1st team defense. :disagree:
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Re: Huh?

Postby JUST-MING on Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:20 pm

Bynum (16 points on 44% shooting, 9 boards). Gasol (12 points on 44% shooting, 10 boards). Explanations? Ibaka isn’t a good defender. He’s just a shot blocker. Gasol and Bynum were shut down by Sefolosha and Perkins, who are even better defenders than the runner-up DPOY and the 1st team All-Defense member.

Pardon the eye roll, I just caught a whiff of something that smelled like bullshhh.
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Re: Huh?

Postby therealdeal on Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:56 pm

JUST-MING wrote:Bynum (16 points on 44% shooting, 9 boards). Gasol (12 points on 44% shooting, 10 boards). Explanations? Ibaka isn’t a good defender. He’s just a shot blocker. Gasol and Bynum were shut down by Sefolosha and Perkins, who are even better defenders than the runner-up DPOY and the 1st team All-Defense member.

Pardon the eye roll, I just caught a whiff of something that smelled like bullshhh.

Alright I've been respectful thus far to you, but I've had enough. Your response is disrespectful and I do not appreciate it. I am giving you an informal warning to watch the way that respond to posters here.

JUST-MING wrote:Bynum (16 points on 44% shooting, 9 boards). Gasol (12 points on 44% shooting, 10 boards).

Those stats are supposed to indicate what exactly? Basketball is a team game played by five people at a time, we both know that right? Well how can you then give all of the credit to one person? No one person is responsible for defense, the team is.

JUST-MING wrote:Explanations?

Again, team defense. Everyone knows this.

JUST-MING wrote:Ibaka isn’t a good defender.

I never once said this.

JUST-MING wrote: He’s just a shot blocker.

True, but that doesn't make him a bad defender.

JUST-MING wrote:Gasol and Bynum were shut down by Sefolosha and Perkins

In part. I did not give them full credit.

JUST-MING wrote:who are even better defenders than the runner-up DPOY

I never said this.

JUST-MING wrote:and the 1st team All-Defense member.

He was named here because he was the league's leading shot-blocker which is a part of defense.

JUST-MING wrote:Pardon the eye roll, I just caught a whiff of something that smelled like bullshhh.

This was very disrespectful and I will not stand for it. You will not get another soft warning from me.
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Re: Rumor: Michael Beasley For Jordan Hill?

Postby Phil XI on Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:59 pm

Baggery at its finest.
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Re: Rumor: Michael Beasley For Jordan Hill?

Postby thkthebest on Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:11 pm

I really have no idea why JUST-MING keeps citing their FG% as if that is the sole indicator of Ibaka's defense.

Gasol against Nuggets: 42.7 FG%

Does this mean Faried is better than Ibaka on defense?
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Re: Rumor: Michael Beasley For Jordan Hill?

Postby Rooscooter on Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:14 pm

thkthebest wrote:I really have no idea why JUST-MING keeps citing their FG% as if that is the sole indicator of Ibaka's defense.

Gasol against Nuggets: 42.7 FG%

Does this mean Faried is better than Ibaka on defense?


Yup.... and Historically Bynum has done very well against Chandler..... Kobe stunk against Dallas last year.... as did Odom and Pau.... are Dirk and Marion "All Defense Team" worthy?....
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Re: Twin Towers

Postby JUST-MING on Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:55 am

thkthebest wrote:Gasol against Nuggets: 42.7 FG%
Does this mean Faried is better than Ibaka on defense?

Pau Gasol: 13 points on 42.7% shooting, 9 boards | 12 points on 44.4% shooting, 10 boards
Bynum: 16.5 points on 51.2% shooting, 12 boards | 16.5 points on 43.5% shooting, 9 boards

One of the two towers was still effective, ie. Bynum, against Denver. That wasn’t the case with Oklahoma City, both were shut down. It wasn’t just field goal percentage, there were games when Gasol and Bynum only grabbed one rebound per quarter. Gm4 (Gasol). Gm5 (Bynum). Shut down.
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Re: 2011 Dallas Mavericks

Postby JUST-MING on Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:59 am

Rooscooter wrote:Kobe stunk against Dallas last year... are Dirk and Marion “All Defense Team” worthy?

Didn’t Lebron also average like 18 points against them in the NBA Finals? Chandler just won DPOY.
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Re: Rumor: Michael Beasley For Jordan Hill?

Postby jimbo327 on Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:24 am

This is BS. Kahn is going to want a lot more than that for Beasley.
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Re: Twin Towers

Postby therealdeal on Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:39 am

JUST-MING wrote:
thkthebest wrote:Gasol against Nuggets: 42.7 FG%
Does this mean Faried is better than Ibaka on defense?

Pau Gasol: 13 points on 42.7% shooting, 9 boards | 12 points on 44.4% shooting, 10 boards
Bynum: 16.5 points on 51.2% shooting, 12 boards | 16.5 points on 43.5% shooting, 9 boards

One of the two towers was still effective, ie. Bynum, against Denver. That wasn’t the case with Oklahoma City, both were shut down. It wasn’t just field goal percentage, there were games when Gasol and Bynum only grabbed one rebound per quarter. Gm4 (Gasol). Gm5 (Bynum). Shut down.

So Oklahoma is a better defensive team. Anyone could have told you that.
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Re: 2011 Dallas Mavericks

Postby therealdeal on Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:40 am

JUST-MING wrote:
Rooscooter wrote:Kobe stunk against Dallas last year... are Dirk and Marion “All Defense Team” worthy?

Didn’t Lebron also average like 18 points against them in the NBA Finals? Chandler just won DPOY.

He won DPOY with the Knicks and deservedly so. What's your point?
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Re: 2011 Dallas Mavericks

Postby JUST-MING on Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:08 am

therealdeal wrote:What's your point?

The Mavericks last year did have an “All Defense Team” worthy player. He was just named DPOY.

Do you need things spelled out for you? I could have saved myself at least a dozen posts if you didn’t.
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Re: Rumor: Michael Beasley For Jordan Hill?

Postby therealdeal on Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:16 am

Your point went from Ibaka should have won DPOY, to Ibaka is the only defender on the Thunder, to the Gasol and Bynum were shut down, to Chandler deserved the DPOY.

So yes, excuse me if I'm a bit confused, but it's hard to keep track of a swiftly dissolving argument that the arguer cannot maintain. Pick a point and make it.
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Re: Confusion

Postby JUST-MING on Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:17 am

therealdeal wrote:So yes, excuse me if I'm a bit confused.

Read the “subject”.
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