Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Who gets your vote?

Jerry Sloan
17
10%
Stan Van Gundy
25
15%
Jeff Van Gundy
45
27%
George Carl
14
8%
Byron Scott
17
10%
Kurt Rambis
7
4%
Someone else
38
23%
 
Total votes : 163

Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby therealdeal on Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:13 pm

Azndude2190 wrote:IMO, you're still looking at it from a poster at CL perspective. No one really knows the circumstances and family dynamics of both Jim Buss or his family.

No I'm looking at it from my perspective. You said we wouldn't give up that position, but I absolutely would. I think most people would actually. It takes a special kind of narcissist to stay in that position too long. See: Jerry Jones.
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby dj vitus on Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:20 pm

therealdeal wrote:sister golden hair-

For a while I thought you were referring to Azndude cause of his avatar. :man10:
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby therealdeal on Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:29 pm

dj vitus wrote:
therealdeal wrote:sister golden hair-

For a while I thought you were referring to Azndude cause of his avatar. :man10:

If I wanted to vaguely insult Azndude I'd call him a whiny wuss face!

Just kidding Azn. :man10:
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby Azndude2190 on Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:53 pm

therealdeal wrote:
Azndude2190 wrote:IMO, you're still looking at it from a poster at CL perspective. No one really knows the circumstances and family dynamics of both Jim Buss or his family.

No I'm looking at it from my perspective. You said we wouldn't give up that position, but I absolutely would. I think most people would actually. It takes a special kind of narcissist to stay in that position too long. See: Jerry Jones.


He's been in this position without his Dad around for all but 1 year. I don't even think I would call it quits so soon.
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby therealdeal on Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:08 pm

Azndude2190 wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
Azndude2190 wrote:IMO, you're still looking at it from a poster at CL perspective. No one really knows the circumstances and family dynamics of both Jim Buss or his family.

No I'm looking at it from my perspective. You said we wouldn't give up that position, but I absolutely would. I think most people would actually. It takes a special kind of narcissist to stay in that position too long. See: Jerry Jones.


He's been in this position without his Dad around for all but 1 year. I don't even think I would call it quits so soon.

It's not quits. He's still the president. Right now he's operating two positions and that's not the formula that we had for success. The formula was president, vice president, and general manager. Three voices. Right now he's two of them. He's still the man, he's still the owner, and he still gets veto power. The only difference is we have another voice in a position of authority to help facilitate these matters.
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby sister golden hair on Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:34 pm

therealdeal wrote:
Azndude2190 wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
Azndude2190 wrote:IMO, you're still looking at it from a poster at CL perspective. No one really knows the circumstances and family dynamics of both Jim Buss or his family.

No I'm looking at it from my perspective. You said we wouldn't give up that position, but I absolutely would. I think most people would actually. It takes a special kind of narcissist to stay in that position too long. See: Jerry Jones.


He's been in this position without his Dad around for all but 1 year. I don't even think I would call it quits so soon.

It's not quits. He's still the president. Right now he's operating two positions and that's not the formula that we had for success. The formula was president, vice president, and general manager. Three voices. Right now he's two of them. He's still the man, he's still the owner, and he still gets veto power. The only difference is we have another voice in a position of authority to help facilitate these matters.


Yeah. It's bizarre that people want to double-down on the "owner as talent evaluator and personnel shotcaller" play. Where has that ever worked well? I would bet if you asked GMs across several sports (and owners, too) the vast majority would tell you that the job duties of both positions are virtually mutually exclusive. It's hard enough to do one well, but to do both things well? I see no percentage in it.

The laker FO has been zigging and zagging ever since Jimmy assumed both reins. The team's "direction" seems to change willy-nilly depending on which head coaching candidate gives the best phone call. It's just strange. Say what you want about the PJ era (and I get a kick out of people who dismiss PJ, for example, by arguing, "yeah, but setting aside the five rings and seven trips to the Finals he provided as head coach, what did PJ ever really accomplish?) -- but the team had a core identity (they ran the triangle, they were bigger than anyone; they would kill you on the glass; they stayed cool under pressure, etc). They knew what they did well and it almost didn't matter what the other team did.

Since then, I have a hard time figuring out what the lakers are about, and it doesn't help when back-to-back head coaching hires are for coaches who are diametrically opposite in approach.

I think Jim Buss would be better served as owner, and allow "basketball heads" to make the day-to-day moves, evaluation, etc. People can bring up "Scott May vs Bynum" all they want. If true, that speaks to Mitch's inadequacies in that instance more than Jimmie's clairvoyance. (Mitch has a soft-spot for UNC guys -- I think that's been pretty well established.) But no knowledgable laker fan I knew wanted Scott May -- he had tons of red flags. If you want to give Jim credit for that, go ahead. I just don't see how it means very much. Moreover, the irony of the Bynum pick seems to escape everyone who brings it up in support of Jim. The guy who initially flagged Bynum for the Lakers (before anyone else) was Ronnie Lester -- you know, the same Ronnie Lester that was assistant GM under Mitch and who was unceremoniously dumped by Jimmie during the PJ-purge.

WIthout Ronnie doing the dirty work of identifying the raw clay Bynum had to work with, Jimmie doesn't even get a chance to hitch his wagon to Bynum (if that is indeed what happened).

I dunno. To me the answer seems pretty straightforward. I don't think Mitch says "no" often enough (or at all) to Jim. I think the quality of the decision-making has suffered because of that.
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby LakerJack on Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:22 pm

Scott has everything the Lakers need. Experience as a player and coach. This is his dream job and he would stop at nothing to win a championship. He is a Laker.
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby Rooscooter on Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:07 pm

sister golden hair wrote:I think Jim Buss would be better served as owner, and allow "basketball heads" to make the day-to-day moves, evaluation, etc. People can bring up "Scott May vs Bynum" all they want. If true, that speaks to Mitch's inadequacies in that instance more than Jimmie's clairvoyance. (Mitch has a soft-spot for UNC guys -- I think that's been pretty well established.) But no knowledgable laker fan I knew wanted Scott May -- he had tons of red flags. If you want to give Jim credit for that, go ahead. I just don't see how it means very much. Moreover, the irony of the Bynum pick seems to escape everyone who brings it up in support of Jim. The guy who initially flagged Bynum for the Lakers (before anyone else) was Ronnie Lester -- you know, the same Ronnie Lester that was assistant GM under Mitch and who was unceremoniously dumped by Jimmie during the PJ-purge.

WIthout Ronnie doing the dirty work of identifying the raw clay Bynum had to work with, Jimmie doesn't even get a chance to hitch his wagon to Bynum (if that is indeed what happened).

I dunno. To me the answer seems pretty straightforward. I don't think Mitch says "no" often enough (or at all) to Jim. I think the quality of the decision-making has suffered because of that.


"People" here again..... :wave: it would be nice to do this first person but you seem to be evading me.... :man10:

First.... it's not "Scott"......

Lester did the initial legwork on Bynum at Jimmy's request. He also was overruled by Mitch and Phil.... only to be overruled by Jimmy and the Dr. That whole thing has been fairly well documented so the "if true" stuff is a little off base unless those same "insiders" are just as wrong about most of the other things we hear about Jimmy that nobody likes. I didn't like the Lester firing either but to say that he pushed for Bynum alone and imply that Jimmy takes credit for it erroneously is re-writing what happened from all accounts. It still doesn't change the fact that Mitch and Phil wanted May..... even if Jimmy was only the decider in that you should thank god for that.

Fact is that Luke's contract.... Radman's contracts (among the worst we've done in the last 10 years) were not his personnel decisions escapes you as well. Let's not even go to the wanting to trade Kobe for Kidd or Bynum for JO or Kidd demands by Phil. It will be interesting to see how you weave Jimmy into these little tidbits.....

As I said before.... i'm no Jimmy apologist but the revisionist history here is pretty thick. We're in a bad situation after 14 years of contending almost every year.... when that comes to an end as it did in 1990 you have considerable rebuilding to do. At least Jimmy hasn't named Coaches like these under the Dr and Jerry West's watch:

Dunleavy
Pfund
Bertka
Magic
Harris
Bertka
Rambis

We can't forget that those two also brought us Peeler, Lynch and Jacobson in the first round and traded up for Celestand and Rogers in the second round.

Point being that even the ones we think are legendary made nearly a decade of questionable decisions using hindsight before the stars aligned and we signed Shaq and rolled the dice on Kobe. Kobe was no sure thing btw.... other than Malone no HS kid had made a successful transition and Garnett was only a year into his career so Kobe was a gamble that turned out to be a massive home run but Laker Fans were not behind the pick 100%....

Larger point here is a lot of things have to go right to create a championship roster and coaching staff. We swung for the fences in 04 and again in 2010 and yet again last year and each time it didn't work out. I guess it depends on who you blame each one of those on with your 20-20 hindsight but there are only 2 of the 3 leaders who were in their current positions for all 3 strikes..... and Jimmy isn't one of them. Maybe one of the others needs to move to a ceremonial position.....

You can write eloquent posts going on and on about what you believe and how those who see it differently ( or clearly) are fools all you want but I've followed the team through 3 owners now and this is the beginning of the 3rd dry spell I've seen and I'll rely on the reality of the last 2 rather than thinking a new "figure head" will magically overcome the CBA, draft, coaching and FA issues all at once.
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby Azndude2190 on Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:42 am

therealdeal wrote:
Azndude2190 wrote:
therealdeal wrote:
Azndude2190 wrote:IMO, you're still looking at it from a poster at CL perspective. No one really knows the circumstances and family dynamics of both Jim Buss or his family.

No I'm looking at it from my perspective. You said we wouldn't give up that position, but I absolutely would. I think most people would actually. It takes a special kind of narcissist to stay in that position too long. See: Jerry Jones.


He's been in this position without his Dad around for all but 1 year. I don't even think I would call it quits so soon.

It's not quits. He's still the president. Right now he's operating two positions and that's not the formula that we had for success. The formula was president, vice president, and general manager. Three voices. Right now he's two of them. He's still the man, he's still the owner, and he still gets veto power. The only difference is we have another voice in a position of authority to help facilitate these matters.


Who was President when Jerry Buss was still around? All I know was that Jim Buss has been Executive Vice President of Player Personnel and Kupchak has been the GM.
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby therealdeal on Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:37 am

Azndude2190 wrote:
Who was President when Jerry Buss was still around? All I know was that Jim Buss has been Executive Vice President of Player Personnel and Kupchak has been the GM.

Jerry was. Jim was Vice President and Mitch was GM.

Now it's Jim's turn to be President, hire a Vice President, and Mitch is still GM. I don't know who that VP would be, Phil is a great choice I think, but the point is for there to be another voice in the room for decision making.
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby therealdeal on Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:29 pm

Here's an idea:

Patrick Ewing

I have no reason to think he'd be a great coach. I have no great knowledge of his coaching ability. But he's gotten rave reviews from people he's coached, people who have coached with him, and people who have coached him personally. Al Jefferson says he's a better player now than he was before Ewing coached him. Clifford says he pays great attention to detail and works his butt off. He's said he'd be defensive minded and focus on that end of the floor.

I know there's never been a ton of success from a Center-coach besides Russell, but if we're going to take a shot at something different this could be an interesting decision.

If we're looking for an inspired choice, something different that'll make a splash, why not a guy like Ewing? He's 51, he's been coaching for 10 years, and he's hungry for a shot at a big position. It doesn't get much bigger than the Lakers, right?
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby Weezy on Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:47 pm

I don't know that we can take a shot with an unknown in our position. He may be a really good coach, but after 2 disaster hires in a row, the pressure for the next Lakers coach will be enormous, I'm not sure you want to put a rookie head coach in that position.
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby Azndude2190 on Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:32 pm

therealdeal wrote:
Azndude2190 wrote:
Who was President when Jerry Buss was still around? All I know was that Jim Buss has been Executive Vice President of Player Personnel and Kupchak has been the GM.

Jerry was. Jim was Vice President and Mitch was GM.

Now it's Jim's turn to be President, hire a Vice President, and Mitch is still GM. I don't know who that VP would be, Phil is a great choice I think, but the point is for there to be another voice in the room for decision making.


Then how exactly does having a third voice help Jim Buss again? Or for that matter shield him from fan criticism? Especially when 1) he retains all his power and 2) that third person we are talking about is Phil Jackson.

Normally in real life I would say having different opinions would be welcoming to a management team trying to run a organization or institution,or really just in general; but with Phil, I feel like he would constantly be antagonistic by cracking smart *** jokes on twitter or something and therefore undermining Jim.

If you already answered some or all of this in some prior post, I apologize, I go in and out of conversations sometimes so I miss things.
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby therealdeal on Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:40 pm

Weezy wrote:I don't know that we can take a shot with an unknown in our position. He may be a really good coach, but after 2 disaster hires in a row, the pressure for the next Lakers coach will be enormous, I'm not sure you want to put a rookie head coach in that position.

I agree actually, just saying it'd be an interesting choice. I'd like to see him get an interview at least.

The reason I bring it up is because the Celtics got a nice coach this summer. Golden State got a nice coach a couple years ago. I don't want any more retread coaches. I want some guy hungry to prove he's a great coach. Someone with fresh ideas and a good attitude. Even though I've been advocating the Van Gundys, I'm not sure they even qualify for that.
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby therealdeal on Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:48 pm

Azndude2190 wrote:Then how exactly does having a third voice help Jim Buss again? Or for that matter shield him from fan criticism? Especially when 1) he retains all his power and 2) that third person we are talking about is Phil Jackson.

Normally in real life I would say having different opinions would be welcoming to a management team trying to run a organization or institution,or really just in general; but with Phil, I feel like he would constantly be antagonistic by cracking smart *** jokes on twitter or something and therefore undermining Jim.

If you already answered some or all of this in some prior post, I apologize, I go in and out of conversations sometimes so I miss things.

Jim Buss is still in charge, sure. But tell me when things went bad under Doctor Buss who got the blame? It was Mitch. Mitch was on a real hot seat before he pulled the Gasol deal off. Fans were pretty upset about some of the decisions he made. In this scenario the blame would again be transferred away from Jim Buss to the people he hired to make these decisions.

Dr. Buss was very much involved in the business and decision making, but he let the other guys do their work and then bring ideas to him. He usually would agree and let them run the business, sometimes he'd say no and move in a different direction. He's still the most powerful figure in the room. He's still paying the checks. But the people who he hires are the ones who are responsible for decision making. Obviously as the boss he gets some pressure, but the pressure is lessened because there's another buffer between him and some of the decisions. Say we sign _____ and that guy doesn't work out. Who's fault is that? If that happened today, it'd be the FO aka Jim Buss. If he hires a VP then that VP takes a share of that blame.

I want Phil because I think it works out perfectly. Jim Buss has all the power over Phil Jackson. He's his boss. He pays the bills. He can veto a trade if he doesn't like it. Phil gets his upper management position. The Lakers FO gets a new face that players, fans, and everyone else can trust and look to for inspiration. It's a big, dramatic splash just like the Lakers are known for. Would he cause some trouble? Maybe. But lately his statements towards Jim Buss have been very tame. He's been far more respectful than he was in the past. I think if Jim hired him, it'd show great maturity and he'd get a ton of credit for that; not only from the fans but from Phil himself.
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby Chillbongo on Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:04 pm

Weezy wrote:I don't know that we can take a shot with an unknown in our position. He may be a really good coach, but after 2 disaster hires in a row, the pressure for the next Lakers coach will be enormous, I'm not sure you want to put a rookie head coach in that position.

I feel more or less the same. However Mike Brown and Pringles both were "known" coaches in that sense, and both were deemed bad decisions by the media and fans right when the hires were made. And it didn't stop there.

Out of the remaining "known", there are very few I'd want to see on the Laker bench, and none of those guys are available. Poppovich, Thibodeau, Vogel, Carlisle, Jackson (Mark), Doc, Brooks, and maybe Hornacek.

I guess I'd look at George Karl but I'm not sold on him unless he can adapt to strategizing around a fundamental big man. And potentially Adelman, but it seems his coaching hasn't adapted to today's NBA/players or I guess he has just be on really bad teams.
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby Weezy on Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:36 pm

therealdeal wrote:
Weezy wrote:I don't know that we can take a shot with an unknown in our position. He may be a really good coach, but after 2 disaster hires in a row, the pressure for the next Lakers coach will be enormous, I'm not sure you want to put a rookie head coach in that position.

I agree actually, just saying it'd be an interesting choice. I'd like to see him get an interview at least.

The reason I bring it up is because the Celtics got a nice coach this summer. Golden State got a nice coach a couple years ago. I don't want any more retread coaches. I want some guy hungry to prove he's a great coach. Someone with fresh ideas and a good attitude. Even though I've been advocating the Van Gundys, I'm not sure they even qualify for that.


I'm not saying we shouldn't take a chance on an unknown, I wanted to hire Shaw after Brown. I think it might be a good idea actually, to go a completely different route. I just don't think the franchise can do it right now, like I said the pressure on that coach would be enormous, the fans might revolt as soon as he's hired because he's not a big, known name or proven in coaching. I don't know that with the TWC deal, and Lakers fans known to tune out when we aren't winning, that they CAN take a risk like that. It sucks, but they blew it with the 'Brown hire, and the 'Antoni hire right after he was fired, and now I don't know that they can afford to take a risk or blow it again. That's why I agree with some that while I don't like George Karl, he would seem to me to be a likely hire, because he's known and he's had success. I hope that doesn't happen, but it seems like a move our FO would make.
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby therealdeal on Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:45 pm

You might be right. I think there's going to be enormous pressure on whoever is next here. Even if they're okay, they're going to be going into a pretty hostile situation.

I wouldn't really want Karl, but you're right. He'd be a logical choice right now for the direction of this team. We need to be okay first before we jump to inspired/great.
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby West's Formula 44 on Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:09 pm

Azndude2190 wrote:I doubt any of you would step back or step down if you were in Jimmy's shoes.


Just mail me a check.
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby LakerJack on Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:57 pm

Why not dump D at the all star break and bring in Scott? Give the new coach a head start on next year.
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby karacha on Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:24 pm

They are not going to do that. There's absolutely no point in firing the coach in the middle of the season.

And most of us would not like Scott, so... no.

Finally, most of these players would not be on the new team anyway, so a new coach would not benefit from it that much.
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby Chillbongo on Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:58 pm

Why is there no choice for Dan D'Antoni?
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby 432J on Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:03 pm

Chillbongo wrote:Why is there no choice for Dan D'Antoni?

:man10: :lol:
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby Chillbongo on Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:08 pm

karacha wrote:They are not going to do that. There's absolutely no point in firing the coach in the middle of the season.

And most of us would not like Scott, so... no.

Finally, most of these players would not be on the new team anyway, so a new coach would not benefit from it that much.

Yep, roll with Pringles for this season. As I stated, we can go 31-0 for the remainder of the season, set the #2 record for longest NBA winning streak and still not make the Playoffs.

If we go get a new coach, it will largely be dependent on which major free agents we get (if any). If we trade for Love or draft someone who isn't NBA ready - which coach is available and realistically a better option than Pringles from the mindset of the Lakers FO? George Karl? Maybe.

On the other hand Patrick Ewing sounds like a good idea but I'd like to see him run some practices and coach games 1st hand before we commit to him. Which is pretty much impossible.

What's he like handling the media? Is he stoic with his players or in your face a la the Van Gundy's? Can he handle star personalities?
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Re: Who's the next Laker coach? (NEW POLL, VOTE FOR 2!)

Postby therealdeal on Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:19 pm

^ All fantastic questions. I don't know.

I just know he's hungry to prove something and he's gotten glowing reviews from everyone around him. Maybe Ewing isn't the answer, but a coach like that is.
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