Spurs and Lakers Trade Proposal

Postby FeelGoodUnInc on Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:36 am

:man9: that's a joke of a trade for the spurs
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Postby revgen on Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:40 am

director2b wrote:I read on Hoopshype that the Spurs were shopping Beno Udrih, they also are now looking to get younger & need a center...

So how about:

Chris Mihm for Robert Horry & Udrih.

Udrih, would fight with Smush for the starting job and Horry would be the big triangle experienced vet our team needs.

For the Spurs, it helps address their nees at center.
To me this seems more likely then a Bowen, Finley trade, because Finley is still a great deal at his price and Bowen is their proven lock down defender.

The biggest question to me is would we trade with the Spurs?


Horry and Udrih wouldn't match Cook and Mihm's salaries.

Horry and Finley together would work though. I'd prefer Bowen over Horry though. Nothing against Horry, but we need some veteran defensive presence. Bowen is a little bit better in the D department.
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Postby revgen on Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:42 am

FeelGoodUnInc wrote::man9: that's a joke of a trade for the spurs


You think so?

The Spurs will be old jokes if they don't aquire young talent. Don't believe me? Go to a spurs fan forum. They often talk about the team getting old. Especially after losing to a young Dallas squad in the playoffs last year.
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Postby live and die in LA on Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:03 am

The Spurs would laugh at such a deal.
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Postby director2b on Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:26 am

I'm not sure if they would laugh it off... They definetly are looking to move Udrih. Horry while an asset to them, is less important than filling their hole at center.

They have interest in Magloire but it's suspected that they don't have enough to get it done.

Revgen, you're right the salaries don't match, but I wasn't proposing to include Cook in the trade... and without Cook I think it is close enough... Of course we still would have too many on our roster, but nothing a couple of trades for second rounders wouldn't solve.
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Postby G on Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:49 am

jungbum wrote:
G wrote:
revgen wrote:


1) I have compared salaries.

2) I have compared what each team needs.

3) What part did I not follow?


#1


I think G have been mistaken. Finley was waived last season by Mavs because of one time amnesty clause (he was getting payed about $15 mil) and Spurs signed him for 2 year / $5 million (around there) deal.


#1 in JSM's 5 rules. Would the other team do it? No, they wouldn't. End of discussion.
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Postby revgen on Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:03 am

G wrote:
jungbum wrote:
G wrote:
revgen wrote:


1) I have compared salaries.

2) I have compared what each team needs.

3) What part did I not follow?


#1


I think G have been mistaken. Finley was waived last season by Mavs because of one time amnesty clause (he was getting payed about $15 mil) and Spurs signed him for 2 year / $5 million (around there) deal.


#1 in JSM's 5 rules. Would the other team do it? No, they wouldn't. End of discussion.


What discussion? You haven't discussed anything.

So far people have been saying it's a bad trade for the spurs, yet nobody says why. The Spurs are trying to get younger and get a center. We have youth and we have a solid center at the price they are looking for. If you disagree, at least give an explanation longer than one sentence.
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Postby G on Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:08 am

revgen wrote:
G wrote:
jungbum wrote:
G wrote:
revgen wrote:


1) I have compared salaries.

2) I have compared what each team needs.

3) What part did I not follow?


#1


I think G have been mistaken. Finley was waived last season by Mavs because of one time amnesty clause (he was getting payed about $15 mil) and Spurs signed him for 2 year / $5 million (around there) deal.


#1 in JSM's 5 rules. Would the other team do it? No, they wouldn't. End of discussion.


What discussion? You haven't discussed anything.

So far people have been saying it's a bad trade for the spurs, yet nobody says why. The Spurs are trying to get younger and get a center. We have youth and we have a solid center at the price they are looking for. If you disagree, at least give an explanation longer than one sentence.


Bowen is one of the best 1 on 1 defenders in the league, and an above average 3 point shooter. Finley is still capable of scoring 20 on any night off the bench.

Mihm is a decent center, who's a foul magnet, and Brian Cook is a chucker, who gives you nothing else...besides chucking.

That's why.

:bang:
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Postby director2b on Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:45 am

I agree with you in regards to Finley & Bowen, but what are your thoughts on Udrih & Horry... (Im keeping this discussion in this thread since it's similar enough and doesn't need its own thread).
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Postby Klewfish on Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:19 pm

director2b wrote:I agree with you in regards to Finley & Bowen, but what are your thoughts on Udrih & Horry... (Im keeping this discussion in this thread since it's similar enough and doesn't need its own thread).


No need for Udrih, Horry is a unlikely possibility
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Postby revgen on Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:59 pm

G wrote:
revgen wrote:
G wrote:
jungbum wrote:
G wrote:
revgen wrote:


1) I have compared salaries.

2) I have compared what each team needs.

3) What part did I not follow?


#1


I think G have been mistaken. Finley was waived last season by Mavs because of one time amnesty clause (he was getting payed about $15 mil) and Spurs signed him for 2 year / $5 million (around there) deal.


#1 in JSM's 5 rules. Would the other team do it? No, they wouldn't. End of discussion.


What discussion? You haven't discussed anything.

So far people have been saying it's a bad trade for the spurs, yet nobody says why. The Spurs are trying to get younger and get a center. We have youth and we have a solid center at the price they are looking for. If you disagree, at least give an explanation longer than one sentence.


Bowen is one of the best 1 on 1 defenders in the league, and an above average 3 point shooter. Finley is still capable of scoring 20 on any night off the bench.

Mihm is a decent center, who's a foul magnet, and Brian Cook is a chucker, who gives you nothing else...besides chucking.

That's why.

:bang:


Bowen is 35 going on 36. Finley is in his early 30's. Brian Cook is a young 6-10 guy who can shoot 3's and mid-range shots off the bench. Cookie is also capable of scoring 20. He did it a few times last year. He's not your average chucker.

Mihm, on the other hand, doesn't have to worry about fouls since Tim Duncan will be doing the main defensive duties in the paint.

If Mihm is so bad as you say, then who would be a guy that the Spurs should aquire? Remember that they don't want to pay too much for a center. That's why Rasho and Mohammed are leaving. Mihm seems to be the only guy that fits their salary and who's available.
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Postby revgen on Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:04 pm

director2b wrote:I agree with you in regards to Finley & Bowen, but what are your thoughts on Udrih & Horry... (Im keeping this discussion in this thread since it's similar enough and doesn't need its own thread).


I think Udrih is a good decision maker and a solid shooter. I don't think he's much of a defender though, or else Pop would play him more. At least he won't do dumb behind-the-back passes that Smush did last year.

Horry is a vet that knows the triangle and knows how to play with Kobe. He'd be a good pickup as well.

Their salaries also match Mihm's so it wouldn't be a bad trade. I guess one vet like Horry is better than no vets at all.
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Postby echo nation on Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:38 pm

hey

didnt Tim fail to win the championship last year?

maybe the spurs are desperate and would be willing to trade an aging duncan for a solid center in mihm, young prospects in cook and bynum, and... umm... odom...
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Postby revgen on Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:32 pm

echo nation wrote:hey

didnt Tim fail to win the championship last year?

maybe the spurs are desperate and would be willing to trade an aging duncan for a solid center in mihm, young prospects in cook and bynum, and... umm... odom...


I'm sure San Antonio wouldn't mind that deal at all.

But I wouldn't like it, and IMHO neither would the Lakers. Trading Bynum, Mihm, and Odom for one player makes no sense. I don't care how good the player is. To add Cook into the barrel as well just makes the deal too one-sided for the Spurs. Tim Duncan had issues with his foot last year, and there is no way to know how long this will continue.

And BTW, the salaries don't match even if we wanted to do the deal.
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Postby SWOL on Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:11 am

THIS TRADE PROPOSAL IS HORSESHET

CHRIS MIHM IS A PIECE OF CRAP
COOK OR WHOEVER ELSE YOU INCLUDED IS A PIECE OF CRAP

BOWEN IS A DEFESIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR WHO CAN HIT OPEN JUMPERS
FINLEY WAS THIER BEST BENCH PLAYER

THIS MAKES ZERO SENSE FOR THE SPURS, YET YOU CONTINUE TO DEFEND IT WITH NEXT TO NO LOGIC, THIS TRADE WILL NEVER HAPPEN, IT HAS NO VALUE TO THE SPURS, IM SURE THEY ARE SITTING AROUND TELLING THEMSELVES.......HOW CAN WE TRADE FOR 2 STIFFS AND GIVE AWAY THE BEST PERIMITER DEFENDER IN THE NBA

GIVE IT UP
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Postby revgen on Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:28 am

SWOL wrote:THIS TRADE PROPOSAL IS HORSESHET

CHRIS MIHM IS A PIECE OF CRAP
COOK OR WHOEVER ELSE YOU INCLUDED IS A PIECE OF CRAP

BOWEN IS A DEFESIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR WHO CAN HIT OPEN JUMPERS
FINLEY WAS THIER BEST BENCH PLAYER

THIS MAKES ZERO SENSE FOR THE SPURS, YET YOU CONTINUE TO DEFEND IT WITH NEXT TO NO LOGIC, THIS TRADE WILL NEVER HAPPEN, IT HAS NO VALUE TO THE SPURS, IM SURE THEY ARE SITTING AROUND TELLING THEMSELVES.......HOW CAN WE TRADE FOR 2 STIFFS AND GIVE AWAY THE BEST PERIMITER DEFENDER IN THE NBA

GIVE IT UP


I'll give it up once someone tells me..

1) Where the Spurs are going to get a center to replace Rasho and Mohammed? Especially one that is solid and fits their price range.

2) Are they going to sign a FA or trade?

3) Who are they going to trade?

4) Will the salaries match?

5) Will the other team accept the trade?

6) Why would this other team accept the trade?


The Spurs need youth and a center. The Lakers have a solid cheap center in Mihm. The Lakers have Cook and other young prospects and they need veterans to add experience which the Spurs have. If you or anybody else can show me any other team besides the Lakers who can do this deal, then explain it instead of bashing it. I will continue to question your opinion until you do.

Director2b offered a trade proposal that he thought was more reasonable and I agreed that it was a trade that worked salary-wise and it was something I hadn't thought of before. Why can't you do the same?
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Postby jBL on Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:05 am

revgen wrote:
SWOL wrote:THIS TRADE PROPOSAL IS HORSESHET

CHRIS MIHM IS A PIECE OF CRAP
COOK OR WHOEVER ELSE YOU INCLUDED IS A PIECE OF CRAP

BOWEN IS A DEFESIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR WHO CAN HIT OPEN JUMPERS
FINLEY WAS THIER BEST BENCH PLAYER

THIS MAKES ZERO SENSE FOR THE SPURS, YET YOU CONTINUE TO DEFEND IT WITH NEXT TO NO LOGIC, THIS TRADE WILL NEVER HAPPEN, IT HAS NO VALUE TO THE SPURS, IM SURE THEY ARE SITTING AROUND TELLING THEMSELVES.......HOW CAN WE TRADE FOR 2 STIFFS AND GIVE AWAY THE BEST PERIMITER DEFENDER IN THE NBA

GIVE IT UP


I'll give it up once someone tells me..

1) Where the Spurs are going to get a center to replace Rasho and Mohammed? Especially one that is solid and fits their price range.

2) Are they going to sign a FA or trade?

3) Who are they going to trade?

4) Will the salaries match?

5) Will the other team accept the trade?

6) Why would this other team accept the trade?


The Spurs need youth and a center. The Lakers have a solid cheap center in Mihm. The Lakers have Cook and other young prospects and they need veterans to add experience which the Spurs have. If you or anybody else can show me any other team besides the Lakers who can do this deal, then explain it instead of bashing it. I will continue to question your opinion until you do.

Director2b offered a trade proposal that he thought was more reasonable and I agreed that it was a trade that worked salary-wise and it was something I hadn't thought of before. Why can't you do the same?


San Antonio already has bunch of craps at fowards that can play foward-center positions. If they trade away Finley and Bowen, who plays 2 and 3 positions? What can they possibly get from trading those fowards? (Duncan and Horry is probably untouchable) Do you expect Barry to spend quality minutes backing up 2 and 3?

Mihm/Marks
Duncan/Horry/Cook/Oberto/Bonner
Williams
Manu/Barry/Sanders
Parker/Udrih

Center(MLE)/Marks
Duncan/Horry/Oberto/Bonner
Bowen/Finley/Williams
Manu/Barry/Sanders
Parker/Udrih

Now, tell me which roster is better.
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Postby revgen on Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:33 am

jungbum wrote:
revgen wrote:
SWOL wrote:THIS TRADE PROPOSAL IS HORSESHET

CHRIS MIHM IS A PIECE OF CRAP
COOK OR WHOEVER ELSE YOU INCLUDED IS A PIECE OF CRAP

BOWEN IS A DEFESIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR WHO CAN HIT OPEN JUMPERS
FINLEY WAS THIER BEST BENCH PLAYER

THIS MAKES ZERO SENSE FOR THE SPURS, YET YOU CONTINUE TO DEFEND IT WITH NEXT TO NO LOGIC, THIS TRADE WILL NEVER HAPPEN, IT HAS NO VALUE TO THE SPURS, IM SURE THEY ARE SITTING AROUND TELLING THEMSELVES.......HOW CAN WE TRADE FOR 2 STIFFS AND GIVE AWAY THE BEST PERIMITER DEFENDER IN THE NBA

GIVE IT UP


I'll give it up once someone tells me..

1) Where the Spurs are going to get a center to replace Rasho and Mohammed? Especially one that is solid and fits their price range.

2) Are they going to sign a FA or trade?

3) Who are they going to trade?

4) Will the salaries match?

5) Will the other team accept the trade?

6) Why would this other team accept the trade?


The Spurs need youth and a center. The Lakers have a solid cheap center in Mihm. The Lakers have Cook and other young prospects and they need veterans to add experience which the Spurs have. If you or anybody else can show me any other team besides the Lakers who can do this deal, then explain it instead of bashing it. I will continue to question your opinion until you do.

Director2b offered a trade proposal that he thought was more reasonable and I agreed that it was a trade that worked salary-wise and it was something I hadn't thought of before. Why can't you do the same?


San Antonio already has bunch of craps at fowards that can play foward-center positions. If they trade away Finley and Bowen, who plays 2 and 3 positions? What can they possibly get from trading those fowards? (Duncan and Horry is probably untouchable) Do you expect Barry to spend quality minutes backing up 2 and 3?

Mihm/Marks
Duncan/Horry/Cook/Oberto/Bonner
Williams
Manu/Barry/Sanders
Parker/Udrih

Center(MLE)/Marks
Duncan/Horry/Oberto/Bonner
Bowen/Finley/Williams
Manu/Barry/Sanders
Parker/Udrih

Now, tell me which roster is better.


BTW, thanks for actually proposing a different idea rather than bashing.

First of all, they haven't resigned Marks. He's still a free agent, so your 2nd roster basically has no C's and all PF's. Even if Marks was signed, Mihm would be better. It's not a bad lineup if the Spurs plan on running and gunning up the floor like Phoenix did last season. Unfortunately for San Antonio, they are made up of old vets who can't possibly do this. Therefore the first roster is better since they actually have a decent center who can anchor the middle to run a half-court style offense. Your suggestion that either Oberto or Bonner become a backup center also doesn't make sense to me since Oberto is unathletic and inexperienced while Bonner is an outside shooter rather than a presence inside. The only guy I see doing an adequate job at C is probably Horry. But is he good enough to be a full-time starter at his age? So, the bottom line is that you put more pressure on Duncan to deliver inside despite the foot problems he's developed recently. The first roster looks better to me.
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Postby SWOL on Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:12 am

HERE IS SOMEONE THEY ARE ACTUALLY TALKING TO

Spurs showing interest in Jazz's Collins
July 7
Deseret News: "The San Antonio Spurs have emerged as a potential suitor for Jazz free-agent center Jarron Collins. The Jazz have said they want to re-sign Collins, who has spent his entire five-year NBA career in Utah."


COLLINS / FINLEY / BOWEN >>>>>>>> MIHM / COOK
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Postby revgen on Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:23 am

SWOL wrote:HERE IS SOMEONE THEY ARE ACTUALLY TALKING TO

Spurs showing interest in Jazz's Collins
July 7
Deseret News: "The San Antonio Spurs have emerged as a potential suitor for Jazz free-agent center Jarron Collins. The Jazz have said they want to re-sign Collins, who has spent his entire five-year NBA career in Utah."


COLLINS / FINLEY / BOWEN >>>>>>>> MIHM / COOK


Hmm...interesting. Collins has been a backup most of his career. Are they planning to start him? Then again his bench numbers are solid, and it seems like the Spurs are desperate for anybody at this point.
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Postby jBL on Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:28 am

Revgen,
thanks for the post and letting me know about Marks.

IMO, San Antonio can sign a Mihm-caliber or better prospect by spending their MLE and they don't have to lose their veterans. Like SWOL said above, Collins just should do enough for this team when their centers were Rasho and Nazr and still managed to win 60+ games. And they have no need for Cook. They have Horry, who is better shooter and defender than Cook.

I don't think it's that early for Spurs to give up their veterans. You don't just trade for anyone just because our players are old and their players are young. It's not like getting younger will boost their number of wins and guarantee championships. Spurs aren't the team who seeks to rebuild. They're an established team. They don't need to add young players just because they think that they'll not win in 2 or 3 years. All they have to do is keep adding on good prospects through drafts (considering the good drafts that they have) and trades. They can slowly bring those players into rotations as they learn and adopt the system. Slowly take over those players' roles.

But what makes you think why Spurs would trade Bowen and Finley for Mihm and Cook? Ok, you are the Spurs GM. How is this going to improve the team? How are you going to fill the big gap at 2 and 3 positions? Eric Williams is not a starting material. Barry can't handle big minutes, especially now when he has to play both 2 and 3. Sanders? MLE? Who's going to be the next Bowen that stops go-to-guy like Kobe? Bowen will stay and retire in Spurs uniform.
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Postby revgen on Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:09 am

jungbum wrote:But what makes you think why Spurs would trade Bowen and Finley for Mihm and Cook? Ok, you are the Spurs GM. How is this going to improve the team? How are you going to fill the big gap at 2 and 3 positions? Eric Williams is not a starting material. Barry can't handle big minutes, especially now when he has to play both 2 and 3. Sanders? MLE? Who's going to be the next Bowen that stops go-to-guy like Kobe? Bowen will stay and retire in Spurs uniform.


Well since they seem to be getting Collins the whole suggestion is mute at this point.

As far a the draft goes, The Spurs have only drafted 2 good players in Gino and Parker in recent years. The Spurs drafted well when they were one the few teams with very good international scouts. Nowadays, all NBA teams have international scouts so the Spurs are aquiring players like Marks and Oberto instead of players like Gino and Parker.

The vets they have will work for now, but I see a long rebuilding process if they don't bring in young players. Does bringing in young inexperienced players help the spurs immediately? No, of course not. However, as long as their vets get older their trade value goes down. Maybe they're hoping they'll be able to pick up some good FA's when Bowen and the others retire. This is a gamble IMHO.

Anyhoo, I guess I underestimated the Spurs commitment to finding young players, apparently they want to gamble with what they have.
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Postby ObiWanKobe on Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:33 pm

SWOL wrote:A DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR AND THIER BEST BENCH PLAYER FOR 2 PIECES OF GARBAGE, IM SURE POP WILL JUMP ALL OVER THAT ONE


caps off dude
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Postby ObiWanKobe on Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:35 pm

Spurs will never trade with the Lakers, never
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Postby MrClutch on Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:54 pm

No way the spurs does that trade
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