D. West

I know he's a little crazy and Clev is looking to move him, anyone think we have anything of value to Clev? Would an offer of Sasha/future 1st interset Clev?

F**k no. Locker room problems, off the court problems, gun problems... And you want to trade an exemplary locker room/hustle guy for him? Not to mention a draft pick... No. I think I'll pass.

[quote="therealdeal"]F**k no. Locker room problems, off the court problems, gun problems... And you want to trade an exemplary locker room/hustle guy for him? Not to mention a draft pick... No. I think I'll pass.[/quote]

even with all his problems he still 10x the talent Vujabrick is, hustle means nothing when you fouling people 30ft+ away from the rim. I could've sworn thats what all the haters were saying bout Artest becoming a locker room distruption when he signed on.

Not remotely the same attitude, reverance for the team, etc.

Would you really offer a valuable expiring and a first round pick for a potential problem who is only marginally better than Vujacic on any given night? C'mon...

[quote="therealdeal"]Not remotely the same attitude, reverance for the team, etc.

Would you really offer a valuable expiring and a first round pick for a potential problem who is only marginally better than Vujacic on any given night? C'mon...[/quote]

Marginally? serious? Sasha a bonafide Dleaguer if that, West can actually guard the likes of a Dwade, not well but he manages, he is everythign Sasha/Brown aren't, decent shooter but doesn't settle, can get to the basket and actually can handle as oppose to these 2 he actually cares about D, dont confuse with seeing Sasha running around like a chicken with his head cut off as defense. Sasha even as expiring is hardly valuable , I bet you cant even get a 2nd pick for Sasha at this point.

We could trade for him and just have him guard LBJ. Talk trash to him, get in his head and what not.....

khmrP wrote:

therealdeal wrote:Not remotely the same attitude, reverance for the team, etc.

Would you really offer a valuable expiring and a first round pick for a potential problem who is only marginally better than Vujacic on any given night? C'mon...

Marginally? serious? Sasha a bonafide Dleaguer if that, West can actually guard the likes of a Dwade, not well but he manages, he is everythign Sasha/Brown aren't, decent shooter but doesn't settle, can get to the basket and actually can handle as oppose to these 2 he actually cares about D, dont confuse with seeing Sasha running around like a chicken with his head cut off as defense. Sasha even as expiring is hardly valuable , I bet you cant even get a 2nd pick for Sasha at this point.

Let's go ahead and break down this claim a little shall we?

Let's start with the knowledge that Sasha Vujacic played only 8.59 minutes a game last season while Delonte West played 25 minutes a game. Their most recent season averages are as such :

Vujacic--------/----West
Pts. 2.8 ---------/------8.8
FG% 40.2 --------/----- 44.5
3PT% 30.9 --------/-----32.5
FT% 84.9--------/------81
Rebounds 1.2---------/------2.8
Assists .6----------/------3.3
Turnovers .3 ---------/------1.5
Steals .3-----------/----- .9
Blocks .1----------/------ .5
Fouls 1---------- /------1.4

It certainly seems like West has the advantage in most categories. But of course, this doesn't tell the whole story. West plays almost three times as many minutes as Vujacic, giving him more opportunity to have a statistical advantage. Therefore, the best way to look at the comparison between the two is to examine their statistics per 48 minutes of play. In that case, it looks more like this (if my math is correct):

Vujacic ---------/-------West
Points 15.84 ---------/--------17.28
(excluding %s because I don't know of any way to predict this adjustment to more or less minutes depending on the player)
Rebounds 6.72 ----------/------- 5.76
Assists 3.36 ----------/-------6.72
Turnovers 1.92 ----------/------- 2.88
Steals 1.92 ----------/------- 1.92
Blocks .96 ----------/------- .96
Fouls 5.76 ---------/------ 2.88

As you can see the two glaring differences are fouls and assists. We all know Sasha is a fouling machine, so let's move past that. The assists difference at first glance looks massive. But then also remember, on the Lakers, Sasha isn't handling the ball much so his totals are quite low (as most stats are on the team outside of Pau/Kobe). Also important to note is that the assist to turnover ratio is : Vujacic - 1.75/48 minutes and West - 2.34/48 minutes. Slightly worse than Sasha's. The points difference is less than a single basket made and Sasha actually rebounds more (he's a little bigger at 6'7" than West at 6'3").

So like I said, West is marginally better. And not even close to a good presence in a locker room. And most certainly not worth giving up a 1st round pick.

khmrP wrote:

therealdeal wrote:Not remotely the same attitude, reverance for the team, etc.

Would you really offer a valuable expiring and a first round pick for a potential problem who is only marginally better than Vujacic on any given night? C'mon...

Marginally? serious? Sasha a bonafide Dleaguer if that, West can actually guard the likes of a Dwade, not well but he manages, he is everythign Sasha/Brown aren't, decent shooter but doesn't settle, can get to the basket and actually can handle as oppose to these 2 he actually cares about D, dont confuse with seeing Sasha running around like a chicken with his head cut off as defense. Sasha even as expiring is hardly valuable , I bet you cant even get a 2nd pick for Sasha at this point.

I don't care for the sake of the locker room and team chemistry the answer is no. If I want someone from the Cavs I would go after Anthony Parker you know Candice Parker's bother thank you very much. Other than that we are better off just letting Sasha's contract expire.

readeal while I respect your opinion on locker room issues, you have to be kidding me using stats and not looking at the big picture when comparing players, thats like saying D. Lee putting up 20/10 is better then Bynum at C , there is a reason why Sasha gets little PT cause he sucks and he does thigns to piss off the coaching staff like elbowing an opponent when the game is close i can't believe you off all people would base you analysis on a per 48, you really on crack if you think Sasha would avg. any where near those #'s if he plays an entire 48mins, that is the stupidest WHAT IF stats there are in the league, there are some serious GOAT out there who avg. astonishing #'s per 48 but doesn't mean people value that #'.

khmrP wrote:readeal while I respect your opinion on locker room issues, you have to be gitting me using stats and not looking at the big picture when comparing players, thats like saying D. Lee putting up 20/10 is better then Bynum at C , there is a reason why Sasha gets little PT cause he sucks and he does thigns to piss off the coaching staff like elbowing an opponent when the game is close

It's just that West is wacked out of his mind.

^^^man 1 guitar full of guns and all of a sudden he is some sort of mailman waiting to go postal on his teammates

khmrP wrote:^^^man 1 guitar full of guns and all of a sudden he is some sort of mailman waiting to go postal on his teammates

Not to mention have the emotional problems he has you have to wonder why Cleveland wants him out.

^^^well obviously the main reason is probably the impending gun charges but he does have a weird contract where only 500k is guarnteed out of his contract, I'm sure thats applealing to someone out there.

khmrP wrote:^^^well obviously the main reason is probably the impending gun charges but he does have a weird contract where only 500k is guarnteed out of his contract, I'm sure thats applealing to someone out there.

Just not us because we got bigger issues to deal with like signing a backup big, getting Shannon back, and looking for a insurance swingman incase Luke can't play.

khmrP wrote:readeal while I respect your opinion on locker room issues, you have to be kidding me using stats and not looking at the big picture when comparing players, thats like saying D. Lee putting up 20/10 is better then Bynum at C , there is a reason why Sasha gets little PT cause he sucks and he does thigns to piss off the coaching staff like elbowing an opponent when the game is close i can't believe you off all people would base you analysis on a per 48, you really on crack if you think Sasha would avg. any where near those #'s if he plays an entire 48mins, that is the stupidest WHAT IF stats there are in the league, there are some serious GOAT out there who avg. astonishing #'s per 48 but doesn't mean people value that #'.

There's nothing wrong with it at all and it's based off of numbers averaged from what they do while they're on the floor. For instance : Sasha scores .33 points per minute he plays and West scores .36 points per minute he plays.

Between the two West plays far more minutes, and therefore is able to average far more points. West plays almost 3 times as many minutes. If Sasha played 25 minutes a game (holding fixed his average/minute), he'd average close to 7 points. Not far from West's average of close to 9.

I think you're mistaking Sasha's demeanor and West's demeanor as talent. West plays with more confidence born of opportunities given. When Sasha was given great opportunities for playing time his averages were much higher :

In 2007/2008 -
Points 8.8
FG% 45.4
3PT% 43.7
FT% 83.5
Rebounds 2.1
Assists 1.0
Turnovers 0.7
Steals 0.5
Blocks 0.1
Fouls 1.5

And this was in closer to 17-18 minutes of play than 25 like Delonte. Tell me these numbers are a lie. When he was given the chance to be the primary SG off the bench, these are the numbers he put up. West isn't vastly superior to Vujacic in any way except for perhaps he's better at keeping his head on the floor than Sasha who is more emotional.

^^^^well here's a thought while West continued to get the same amount of PT over his career, why is it that Sasha hasn't? I mean youd think with those #'s from 07/08 Sasha would get the same opportunites? Oh yea thats right he SUCKS and Shannon EARNED those PT away from him. Sasha has been given plenty chances, by most account when you had the season he had in 09 and the playoff run he had, he's lucky he's still even in the league.

[quote="Larry14r"][quote="khmrP"]^^^well obviously the main reason is probably the impending gun charges but he does have a weird contract where only 500k is guarnteed out of his contract, I'm sure thats applealing to someone out there.[/quote]

Just not us because we got bigger issues to deal with like signing a backup big, getting Shannon back, and looking for a insurance swingman incase Luke can't play.[/quote]


how does trading Sasha for West have any ties to these 2 things you listed? IN fact it reduces salary not by much but it would even lead to not having to resign Brown.

khmrP wrote:^^^^well here's a thought while West continued to get the same amount of PT over his career, why is it that Sasha hasn't? I mean youd think with those #'s from 07/08 Sasha would get the same opportunites? Oh yea thats right he SUCKS and Shannon EARNED those PT away from him. Sasha has been given plenty chances, by most account when you had the season he had in 09 and the playoff run he had, he's lucky he's still even in the league.

Expect Shannon nearly blew for us vs the C's remember game 2.

khmrP wrote:

Larry14r wrote:

khmrP wrote:^^^well obviously the main reason is probably the impending gun charges but he does have a weird contract where only 500k is guarnteed out of his contract, I'm sure thats applealing to someone out there.

Just not us because we got bigger issues to deal with like signing a backup big, getting Shannon back, and looking for a insurance swingman incase Luke can't play.

how does trading Sasha for West have any ties to these 2 things you listed? IN fact it reduces salary not by much but it would even lead to not having to resign Brown.

it's because we might be forced to trade Sasha for a SF if Luke gets hurt again that's why. Remember SF is more important.

^^^dude come on Ron/Kobe get the bulk of the minutes anyway at SF and you said it yourself, Sasha is most likely going to expire here anyways.

khmrP wrote:^^^dude come on Ron/Kobe get the bulk of the minutes anyway at SF and you said it yourself, Sasha is most likely going to expire here anyways.

True it's just that the Lakers want to lower Ron and Kobe's minutes in the regular season to keep them fresh for postseason.

Looks like West will be dealt to the T'Wolves along with Sebastian Telfair for the Cavs they get Ramon Sessions, Ryan Hollins and a draft pick, but there's more Wolves could waive Delonte West, only guaranteed $500,000, to further get under the salary cap, and trade Telfair, source tells Y! Sports. What do you think about that one khmrP.

I dont know guys D West is good against Lebron James if u know wat i mean..